Wheel nearly came off recently bought car

[SonicSW20]

Correctly torqued wheels can and do come off, not necessarily due to the torque itself more often it’s down to poor fitting, such as not cleaning mating surfaces, incorrectly tightening the bolts (ie to the right torque but in the wrong sequence) I’d hazard a guess in the op’s case the garage (or whoever fitted the wheel) most likely used an impact wrench and didn’t bother to torque the nuts afterwards, you see this frequently at tyre outfits unfortunately.

Every time I pick my truck up from Scania after it’s had an inspection or service where the wheel(s) have been removed, I find a tag attached to the steering wheel warning me to get the torque checked within 25 miles, more than once it’s needed considerable tightening even though the tag tells me the level the wheel was torqued to.

As for the OP getting anywhere with the garage, good luck I’d suspect, ultimately, as a driver it’s down to you to make sure the car is roadworthy , after 90 miles(presumably of more than one journey) I don’t think you’ll have a leg to stand on.

If any of that applies then thats down to the garage, not the customer. A line on the invoice asking the customer to check does not absolve them from negligence, and garages have been taken to court and lost over this happening.

Correctly torqued wheel nuts are only correctly torqued at the time of fitting.

Studs (and bolts) can stretch under tension, so a wheel nut that was tight can become no longer tight.

I don't need to state any "scientific sources" for that, it's how materials behave.

In ~200k road miles and carrying out most servicing myself that would require wheels to be removed, I have never had a wheel nut I've torqued myself loosen off. I've not had one loosen off from a tyre change either myself.

I wasn't asking *you* to provide sources, I was asking the guy who claimed it was proven "legally and scientifically". If it was "legally" proven then garages wouldn't be losing in court when their customers wheel falls off after being serviced by them.

 

[teenwolf]

Correctly torqued wheel nuts are only correctly torqued at the time of fitting.

Studs (and bolts) can stretch under tension, so a wheel nut that was tight can become no longer tight.

I don't need to state any "scientific sources" for that, it's how materials behave.

exactly i cant believe how many folk on here are after the dealer for it after 90 miles.

 

[Greebo]

And yet garages and dealers have been fined for this very thing occurring:

https://www.norfolk.gov.uk/news/201...-in-court-after-wheel-fell-off-car-on-the-a11

A correctly torqued wheel does not fall off. Cite your scientific sources please.

Thats different. Its very clear from the court case that the garage failed to correctly torque the wheels. that is negligence. However, a garage where the wheels were correctly torqued and had a certified torque wrench and later the driver failed to follow the drivers handbook or the garage instruction would not be found guilty of anything. Show me that I am wrong.

 

[SonicSW20]

Thats different. Its very clear from the court case that the garage failed to correctly torque the wheels. that is negligence. However, a garage where the wheels were correctly torqued and had a certified torque wrench and later the driver failed to follow the drivers handbook or the garage instruction would not be found guilty of anything. Show me that I am wrong.

I maintain that the wheel falling off is a pretty clear indication the job wasn't done properly. How about you provide your "scientific" sources first?

 

[Doobedoo]

How many cars on the road currently have had their wheel bolts torque rechecked? I’m gonna go out on a whim and say it’s a very small percentage I doubt it’ll be anywhere near double figures. Don’t come across too many wheels coming off either and I do a few miles.

I also work in the garage trade and believe me very few have their torque wrenches calibrated. It’s not even mandatory.

 

[Greebo]

I maintain that the wheel falling off is a pretty clear indication the job wasn't done properly. How about you provide your "scientific" sources first?

Sigh really? You think that bus and hgv drivers arent legally forced to check their wheel nuts on a regular basis for fun? Because according to you, properly torqued wheel nuts never come loose?

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/vibloose.htm

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11668-017-0297-0

Govt document here explaining exactly why correctly torqued wheel nuts/studs can come loose

https://assets.publishing.service.g...a/file/322067/careless-torque-costs-lives.pdf

Some of you lot arent fit to own and drive cars on the road IMO./

 

[SonicSW20]

Sigh really? You think that bus and hgv drivers arent legally forced to check their wheel nuts on a regular basis for fun? Because according to you, properly torqued wheel nuts never come loose?

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/vibloose.htm

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11668-017-0297-0

Govt document here explaining exactly why correctly torqued wheel nuts/studs can come loose

https://assets.publishing.service.g...a/file/322067/careless-torque-costs-lives.pdf

Some of you lot arent fit to own and drive cars on the road IMO./

There, that wasn't so hard was it? Thanks for the links, I will read them later.

 

[Doobedoo]

Sigh really? You think that bus and hgv drivers arent legally forced to check their wheel nuts on a regular basis for fun? Because according to you, properly torqued wheel nuts never come loose?

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/vibloose.htm

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11668-017-0297-0

Govt document here explaining exactly why correctly torqued wheel nuts/studs can come loose

https://assets.publishing.service.g...a/file/322067/careless-torque-costs-lives.pdf

Some of you lot arent fit to own and drive cars on the road IMO./

To be fair buses and hgvs are under a lot more stress than your average car. Hence why they have mandated regular checks. Cars don’t and they shouldn’t come loose if done properly by a competent person. I’m sorry but a wheel nearly coming off a vehicle is not a common occurrence in any way shape or form.

 

[SonicSW20]

How many cars on the road currently have had their wheel bolts torque rechecked? I’m gonna go out on a whim and say it’s a very small percentage I doubt it’ll be anywhere near double figures. Don’t come across too many wheels coming off either and I do a few miles.

I also work in the garage trade and believe me very few have their torque wrenches calibrated. It’s not even mandatory.

Indeed, you'd think if it was such a safety critical issue without regular checking that wheel nut torque would be tested more strictly on an MOT beyond "are they obviously loose or missing".

 

[Doobedoo]

Indeed, you'd think if it was such a safety critical issue without regular checking that wheel nut torque would be tested more strictly on an MOT beyond "are they obviously loose or missing".

Wheel bolt torque is not even part of the mot criteria. Everything Greebo linked is to do with commercial vehicles not private.

 

[jpaul]

buses/hgv's have tabs on anyway so that could see if there is a problem - maybe cars should

but

its in your own safety to check these things.

old-school wouldn't you have walked around and inspected the wheels on a new car (doesn't everyone once week, too) and spotted an issue, let alone poor car handling or a noise if a bolt came out.

 

[Slam62]

I've never seen a wheel come of a road car on the road, I'm very old and have seen a lot of cars on roads. So it is a rare event that shouldn't have happened.

Take the car back while you can

 

[Mysterae_]

It does sound like dealer incompetence - imagine if it was your technology intolerant mother or granny driving that car; do you really expect them to buy a car then be out with their torque wrench checking all the wheel bolts?

I've been told on two occasions to return to the tyre fitters for the torque to be checked. I checked them myself as I have the ability to do so, not everyone has a torque wrench. When I changed my alloy wheels over winter the tyre fitter made a point of making sure I checked them because of the new alloy wheels - the alloy can deform especially with the bolts torqued to 140Nm, not forgetting that wheels get warm too.

Another issue I heard about is when the wheel bolts are replaced with non-OEM type. The OEM bolts have known and specific characteristics when torqued to OEM specification but those non-OEM bolts made from whatever type of metal can behave quite differently.

The OP hasn't mentioned if any other bolts are loose - I'd be checking those! Good luck getting a satisfactory response from the Arthur Daley you bought the car from.

 

[Greebo]

Wheel bolt torque is not even part of the mot criteria. Everything Greebo linked is to do with commercial vehicles not private.

i only linked to it because it went into the scientific proof as to why correctly torqued wheel nuts/studs "can" come loose.

I do agree with others though, its likely that its the dealers fault and they werent torqued correctly

But perhaps I am old. Gone are the days when drivers had to know more than being able to drive their car and you did regular checks yourself on the car.

You only have to look in old car handbooks and it isnt that long ago drivers were expected to adjust points and even tappets themselves.

I still check the torque on the wheels of all my cars once a month and 25 miles after if a wheel has been off for any reason. Surprising how many times the nut/stud needs tightening up so more.

I will regular check water/oil/screenwash levels and check the tyres for damage as well.

 

[Doobedoo]

i only linked to it because it went into the scientific proof as to why correctly torqued wheel nuts/studs "can" come loose.

Yes pertaining to vehicles that weigh many more times that of your average car. No one is arguing that wheel bolts shouldn’t be torqued but a wheel almost detaching itself from a newly brought vehicle is not the fault of the customer. Something has not been done correctly.

 

[Greebo]

Yes pertaining to vehicles that weigh many more times that of your average car. No one is arguing that wheel bolts shouldn’t be torqued but a wheel almost detaching itself from a newly brought vehicle is not the fault of the customer. Something has not been done correctly.

Agreed. Chances are that it hasnt but equally the OP never checked the wheels after 25 miles which I thought was common practice.

 

[Doobedoo]

I’ve never checked my wheels on any of the cars I’ve brought or owned. I never used a torque wrench until I had a seized wheel bolt which I was told was caused by me over tightening using a strong arm. After that I’ve always torqued my bolts.

It is the correct thing to do though and will no doubt be used as a get out clause but no way should’ve that wheel have came that loose if it was correctly fitted 90 miles ago. I would hedge a bet on the wheel bolt being done up with a impact gun and never torqued at all.

 

[JonRGV250]

I also work in the garage trade and believe me very few have their torque wrenches calibrated. It’s not even mandatory.

Every main dealer I've been a techy in has had all torque wrenches, tyre pressure guages etc etc calibrated once a year.
But, I doubt the independents do due to cost.
It really should be mandatory though.
I'll just add, that all the mobile wheel refurb companies I've seen just whack the nuts/bolts tight with a rattle gun.
There's been plenty of times where we've done a used car check and identified work, then the sales dept has arranged for wheel refurbs, and then we've got the car back in to do the work and had two of us hanging off a breaker bar to remove the wheel bolts that the refurb guys have gunned on.
God only help a customer with a tiny wheel brace to remove those wheels.

 

[Doobedoo]

Every main dealer I've been a techy in has had all torque wrenches, tyre pressure guages etc etc calibrated once a year.
But, I doubt the independents do due to cost.
It really should be mandatory though.
I'll just add, that all the mobile wheel refurb companies I've seen just whack the nuts/bolts tight with a rattle gun.
There's been plenty of times where we've done a used car check and identified work, then the sales dept has arranged for wheel refurbs, and then we've got the car back in to do the work and had two of us hanging off a breaker bar to remove the wheel bolts that the refurb guys have gunned on.
God only help a customer with a tiny wheel brace to remove those wheels.

I’m a garage equipment engineer. I deal with all kinds of garages, from main dealers to back street garages. Very few have their torque wrenches calibrated. We have the equipment to do it but as it’s not mandated not many actually have it done. It is starting to become more of a thing though.

 

[Scania]

buses/hgv's have tabs on anyway so that could see if there is a problem - maybe cars should

They should arguably be mandatory for both HGV’s and cars, they aren’t for either.

Yes pertaining to vehicles that weigh many more times that of your average car. No one is arguing that wheel bolts shouldn’t be torqued but a wheel almost detaching itself from a newly brought vehicle is not the fault of the customer. Something has not been done correctly.

The physics that cause a lose / incorrectly fitted wheel nut/bolt to detach are exactly the same be it on a 44t artic or a 1t car.

Yes trucks undergo extremely higher forces, but, they are engineered like no car ever built to compensate for it.

This is why trucks with well over a million miles on them are common and nothing unusual but an extreme rarity with a car and something that’s regarded as exceptional.

My 2017 Scania is regarded by the dealer that looks after it as “light use operations” - its done a mere 325k miles….