Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Scougar]

What else could Ukraine and the West have done to avert this war?

Seems like he is suggesting Ukraine pump some ability points into the diplomacy skill tree and exhaust everything first like it's a game. He is utterly missing the point that diplomacy would only work in Russia's favor. They are highly unlikely to give up anything. They want resources, people. They want control of pipelines and sea exports. They are a weak economy and looking to enhance that and use those resources as world control.

But sure..
Let's pretend that Russia isn't a bully. Doesn't waste lives like they are nothing.. let's pretend pootin doesn't dispose of political opponents and critics when it suits him.

 

[Amnesia]

Only an idiot refuses to see both sides of an argument, the pope isn't an idiot.

LMAO... we see both sides of the argument, and the Russian government is clearly out of line. Just comical.

So the Ukrainians are completely innocent and all sides(including the West) did everything in their power to avert this war?

You are changing the story. Like you said to me, go back and read my comments. I never suggested Ukrainian or the west is 100% innocent. Nice try though. /Rolleyes

I haven't changed anything, I was just agreeing with the pope that more could have been done to avert this war.
You said you saw both sides and Russia is at fault and when I questioned that you now do not deny that neither Ukraine or the West is innocent.

 

[Hotwired]

A real shame no one's got the words to say what "the west" or ukraine should have done to stop russia invading this second time for more land and resources.

Guess we'll never know.

 

[Rroff]

that you now do not deny that neither Ukraine or the West is innocent.

All that is happening here is you are superimposing your prejudices on the poster.

 

[Amnesia]

What else could Ukraine and the West have done to avert this war?

Well it's going to come back to this issue which we are not going to agree on.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...e-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership

Russias security concerns should have been addressed earlier and maybe this could have been prevented.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

 

[Hotwired]

Well it's going to come back to this issue which we are not going to agree on.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...e-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership

Russias security concerns should have been addressed earlier and maybe this could have been prevented.

What a load of balls tho, Ukraine wasn't getting membership then or now.

You'd have to be raiding the vodka to think Ukraine was ever looking like a good partner to put everything on the line for by making them a partner. Corrupt, no military worth a damn. It's like inviting Turkey in without the benefits.

And on the subject of Turkey, they're probably going to get paid to shut up about blocking Finland and Sweden and guarantee a vastly larger NATO border with Russia. Such is life with Turkey.

 

[Amnesia]

What a load of balls tho, Ukraine wasn't getting membership then or now.

You'd have to be raiding the vodka to think Ukraine was ever looking like a good partner to put everything on the line for by making them a partner. Corrupt, no military worth a damn. It's like inviting Turkey in without the benefits.

And on the subject of Turkey, they're probably going to get paid to shut up about blocking Finland and Sweden and guarantee a vastly larger NATO border with Russia. Such is life with Turkey.

You have clearly no idea what you are talking about, absolutely zero.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Do yourself a favour and at least read up a little on the topic you are so interested in.

 

[Twinz]

It seems to me that Russia's neighbors want to join NATO because Russia has failed to "address" the "security concerns" of its neighbors.

 

[Hotwired]

You have clearly no idea what you are talking about, absolutely zero.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

Do yourself a favour and at least read up a little on the topic you are so interested in.

That refutes nothing I said and you should know it if you read it.

Ukraine was not close to getting any membership ever. By comparison Finland and Sweden say they feel like joining and aside from Turkey being Turkey they're free to sign instantly.

More than that, Ukraine is not a vassal state of Russia and is free to beg it's way into whatever partnership it wants to assure itself of its own security. If it's understandable to you that Russia is invading and stealing land from Ukraine for some kind of pre-emptive security of Russia then what exactly is it ok for Ukraine to do to try and secure itself?

NATO is primarily about freezing borders by threat of overwhelming retaliation. A condition of getting in is to have resolved any current problems. The only reason Putin has to sweat about that is if he fancies stealing land off Ukraine.

 

[Rroff]

Well it's going to come back to this issue which we are not going to agree on.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...e-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership

Russias security concerns should have been addressed earlier and maybe this could have been prevented.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

I'd have more sympathy for Russia if they didn't spend many years doing offensive based exercises on the borders of their neighbours often based around carrying out nuclear attacks (see Zapad 2009 for instance) and/or drilling for attacking NATO countries, along with probing the airspace of other countries with strategic bombers rather than ISR type missions and so on. While NATO exercises and missions are largely defensive in nature (see Cold Response for example). They have as much as anything themselves to blame for the eastward creep of NATO rather than a policy of eastward expansion by NATO.

 

[Amnesia]

That refutes nothing I said and you should know it if you read it.

Ahem,

Could the Ukraine crisis have been avoided?​

Events during the past few months constituted the last chance to avoid a hot war in eastern Europe. Putin demanded that Nato provide guarantees on several security issues. Specifically, the Kremlin wanted binding assurances that the alliance would reduce the scope of its growing military presence in eastern Europe and would never offer membership to Ukraine. He backed up those demands with a massive military buildup on Ukraine’s borders.

The Biden administration’s response to Russia’s quest for meaningful western concessions and security guarantees was tepid and evasive.

Ukraine could drop NATO bid to avoid war, ambassador tells BBC​

Ukraine is not a NATO member but has a promise dating from 2008 that it will eventually be given the opportunity to join, a step that would bring the U.S.-led alliance to Russia's border.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...id-avoid-war-ambassador-tells-bbc-2022-02-14/

 

[Hotwired]

Ahem,

Ukraine could drop NATO bid to avoid war, ambassador tells BBC​

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...id-avoid-war-ambassador-tells-bbc-2022-02-14/

Good one, lets read out from the article what the ambassador said.

"We might - especially being threatened like that, blackmailed by that, and pushed to it," Prystaiko was quoted as saying when asked if Kyiv could change its position on NATO membership.

Putin wanted a guarantee that ex-soviet states would be his to uh... threaten and blackmail and that NATO would offer no refuge to them.

NATO should have accepted that and we'd have had Putins word that he'd be good right?

Putin isn't attacking NATO, he's punishing Ukraine for trying to get away

It's like siding with the abusive partner and saying those black eyes and broken arm wouldn't have happened if they'd just done as they were told.

 

[Amnesia]

What a load of balls tho, Ukraine wasn't getting membership then or now.

You'd have to be raiding the vodka to think Ukraine was ever looking like a good partner to put everything on the line for by making them a partner. Corrupt, no military worth a damn.

That refutes nothing I said and you should know it if you read it.

Ukraine was not close to getting any membership ever.

Ukraine is not a NATO member but has a promise dating from 2008 that it will eventually be given the opportunity to join, a step that would bring the U.S.-led alliance to Russia's border.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...id-avoid-war-ambassador-tells-bbc-2022-02-14/

Good one,

In the meantime you carry on pretending you can't read.
Strange how so many become incapable of reading English when I provide links or they then change the topic.

 

[Hotwired]

In the meantime you carry on pretending you can't read.

That refutes nothing I said and you should know it if you read it.

Ukraine was not close to getting any membership ever.

Eventually is another way of describing infinity.

Turkey might eventually get into the EU. It's only been trying for a few decades and has arms length agreements but it's too backward to commit to what needs to be done to be a real member.


If you can indeed read you'd fully understand that Russia was very clear it wanted exclusive rights to control the countries around it against any will of their own. And for the sake of "avoiding war" Ukraine should have submitted to that.

 

[Rroff]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...id-avoid-war-ambassador-tells-bbc-2022-02-14/



In the meantime you carry on pretending you can't read.
Strange how so many become incapable of reading English when I provide links or then change the topic.

Conveniently skipping over these aspects:

-June 2010 The Ukrainian parliament passed a bill proposed by the President that excluded the goal of "integration into Euro-Atlantic security and NATO membership"

-February 2014 The Yatseniuk Government initially stated that it did not intend to make Ukraine a member of NATO

-August 2014 following reports that the Russian military was operating within Ukraine, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arsenii Yatseniuk announced that he would ask the Ukrainian parliament to put Ukraine on a path towards NATO membership.

Yet you berate others for lack of a balanced position...

 

[Scougar]

I haven't changed anything, I was just agreeing with the pope that more could have been done to avert this war.
You said you saw both sides and Russia is at fault and when I questioned that you now do not deny that neither Ukraine or the West is innocent.

You questioned me? Is this an interview? Now I deny ... LMAO.

Oh you are a gem. I have never stated that they were blameless in the war. Your constant attempts to reframe arguments is whimsical. Clearly you have all the answers. Wow, what a different story it would have been with you in charge. Oh hail Amey... Bringer of loss of land, freedom and resources. Thank the hell you aren't in charge. You'd fit in well with the naive young commies.

Ukraine did not attack, or provoke an attack. Stop being an apologist for a dictatorship. The devil's advocate act is wearing thin on you.

 

[Scougar]

Here we go again folks.... remember...you must not join a defensive alliance because "Russia says so". Literally the reason you want/need a defensive alliance is because of countries like Russia.

Note that I'm not implying that the West is all shiny and perfect. But let's wait on for the comment to try and reframe. Lol.

----


In other news, the large assault towards Kherson in the south is going well so far. They hit a ammo/fuel depot that supplies the northern forces. Hoping they can get to Kherson eventually and recapture. (Still many km to go though) Not sure on the fate in the East, but they are slowly losing ground unfortunately.

 

[Amnesia]

Eventually is another way of describing infinity.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

People here keep saying I'm spouting soviet propaganda and when I provide evidence from websites like BBC, Reuters and the Guardian you all lose the ability to read lol.

 

[Scougar]

And again...what exactly is the issue of Ukraine wanting to defend themselves?

Second, Russia didn't ONLY attack because of that. They attacked in 2014 because of the change in the status quo. They no longer had control. This is what you Amey are avoiding.

They were looking for an excuse to invade and got one. That's it. There is no story here.

 

[Scougar]

For that special person in our lives:
"Did NATO really "betray" Russia?"