Now I am going to repeat again the invasion was not justified but to say all sides are innocent and did their best to avoid the war is disingenuous.
When I say all sides I am including the Ukrainian government and not the Ukrainian people.
Innocence and being able to prevent the war are different concepts, whether Ukraine could have somehow prevented this war by some action and whether they are the innocent party in this brutal and unjustified Russian invasion are not the same thing. Your false equivocation between the concepts is the problem.
Plus we can read all the other pathetic posts you've written in this thread. This is par for the course for you.
Now guys you can quote this post, rage a little, attempt to pick some arguments and claim I'm supporting rape and murder but I probably won't reply to you.
You can't converse with a mob. You didn't repeat the mantra at the start so you're now a pro-Russia troll forever in their minds and that's as far as this binary mentality allows, even if you repeat "this is not justified" until your last breath.
This is not about if the war is justified, it is not and I'm not sure why I keep needing to repeat this.
I said I respected the pope for aknowledging that not all sides did their best to prevent the war.
This is what the pope said.
I replied with
Now after that a load of posters started to rage, they look at each others replies and seem to foam or something as they quote me but don't address the quoted text, instead ignoring what I wrote and comparing it to supporting rape, gassing jews and mass murder.
It's a mob mentality.
Now I am going to repeat again the invasion was not justified but to say all sides are innocent and did their best to avoid the war is disingenuous.
When I say all sides I am including the Ukrainian government and not the Ukrainian people.
You can dismiss that as Russian propaganda or you can give it a fair read, it does not justify the invasion if anyone is expecting that but it does support that all sides did not do their best to avert this war.
Some may say even if the West had bended to Russias requests that Russia could have still invaded and if that is how you feel then fair enough and it is a valid point as they could have, I do not share that opinion and feel more effort should have been made as the Ukrainian/Russian people are now paying the price.
This does not mean that the invasion is justified and I have to keep repeating that as people repeatedly rage and lose the means to comprehend what is actually wrote in my posts, they just keep trying to argue to get one over.
Just because you read the article it does not mean you agree with me in any way nor will you become comrade, you may get called it if you admit to reading it but I can't help that.
Now guys you can quote this post, rage a little, attempt to pick some arguments and claim I'm supporting rape and murder but I probably won't reply to you.
15-Jun-2022 10:53:52 - Italy’s Eni Spokesperson: Gas Flows From Gazprom To Italy Are Down Around 15%
15-Jun-2022 10:55:43 - Italy’s Eni Spokesperson: Gazprom Has Not Explained Reasons For Gas Supply Cut for Now
15-Jun-2022 10:56:25 - Italy’s Eni Spokesperson: Co Is Constantly Monitoring Situation
15-Jun-2022 10:56:23 - Ukrainian President Zelenskiy: Tells Czech Parliament That Russian Invasion of Ukraine Is First Step Opening Way to Attempted Conquest Of Other Countries and Peoples
15-Jun-2022 10:57:59 - Ukrainian President Zelenskiy: The Person Who Wants to Capture Everything Will Never Stop After Capturing Just A Part of What They Want
15-Jun-2022 11:00:42 - Ukrainian President Zelenskiy: Reiterates Call for EU to Give Ukraine Candidate Status, Demands Seventh Package Of EU Sanctions on Russia
15-Jun-2022 11:12:36 - Ikea to Scale Down Business Operations in Russia and Belarus
15-Jun-2022 11:13:47 - Ikea AB: Businesses and Supply Chains Across the World Have Been Heavily Impacted and We Do Not See That It Is Possible to Resume Operations Any Time Soon
15-Jun-2022 11:14:02 - Ikea AB: As a Consequence, Inter Ikea Group and Ingka Group Have Now Each Decided to Enter a New Phase to Further Scale Down the Ikea Business in Russia and Belarus
15-Jun-2022 11:14:41 - Ikea AB: Ikea Retail Business Will Remain Stopped, and Workforce Will Be Reduced, Meaning That Many Co-Workers Will Be Affected
15-Jun-2022 11:14:45 - Ikea AB: in Order to Support the Scaling Down Process, Ingka Group Plans to Sell out Its Home Furnishing Inventory in Russia
15-Jun-2022 11:14:53 - Ikea AB: Inter Ikea Owned Industry Business in Russia Will Reduce the Workforce and Start the Process of Finding New Ownership for All Four Factories
15-Jun-2022 11:14:58 - Ikea AB: This Process Is Currently Underway and All Actions and Decisions Taken Will Be Guided by the Ikea Values and to Support Our People to The Best of Our Ability
15-Jun-2022 11:15:17 - Ikea AB: Import and Export of Ikea Products to and From Russia And Belarus Will Remain Stopped
15-Jun-2022 11:15:35 - Ikea AB: Two Inter Ikea Owned Purchase and Logistics Offices in Moscow And Minsk Will Close Permanently
15-Jun-2022 11:37:00 - German Economy Minister Habeck, on Possible Restrictions on Energy Deliveries From Russia, Says It’s Not Yet Over, Perhaps It’s Just Begun
15-Jun-2022 11:54:25 - German Economy Minister Habeck: Reduction in Russian Gas Supply Is Political Decision, Not Technical
15-Jun-2022 11:21:54 - China’s President Xi Spoke With Russian President Putin — State Media
15-Jun-2022 11:38:48 - China’s President Xi, in Phone Conversation With Russian President Putin, Says All Parties Should Responsibly Promote Proper Resolution of Ukraine Crisis — Chinese State Media
15-Jun-2022 11:53:50 - Russian Economy Minister: Depth of Economic Recession May Be Lower Than Expected
15-Jun-2022 11:55:16 - Russian Economy Minister: Inflation in Russia Will Be Significantly Lower Than Previous Estimates
15-Jun-2022 11:58:11 - Russian Economy Minister: Recession May Not Be As Deep As Expected
Frankly, what is your point Amenesia? That Russia could have been pacified? Is that it? That is your entire point that you have wasted countless hours trying trying to prove? If not, then get to the point.
This is not about if the war is justified, it is not and I'm not sure why I keep needing to repeat this.
I said I respected the pope for aknowledging that not all sides did their best to prevent the war.
This is what the pope said.
I replied with
Now after that a load of posters started to rage, they look at each others replies and seem to foam or something as they quote me but don't address the quoted text, instead ignoring what I wrote and comparing it to supporting rape, gassing jews and mass murder.
It's a mob mentality.
Now I am going to repeat again the invasion was not justified but to say all sides are innocent and did their best to avoid the war is disingenuous.
When I say all sides I am including the Ukrainian government and not the Ukrainian people.
You can dismiss that as Russian propaganda or you can give it a fair read, it does not justify the invasion if anyone is expecting that but it does support that all sides did not do their best to avert this war.
Some may say even if the West had bended to Russias requests that Russia could have still invaded and if that is how you feel then fair enough and it is a valid point as they could have, I do not share that opinion and feel more effort should have been made as the Ukrainian/Russian people are now paying the price.
This does not mean that the invasion is justified and I have to keep repeating that as people repeatedly rage and lose the means to comprehend what is actually wrote in my posts, they just keep trying to argue to get one over.
Just because you read the article it does not mean you agree with me in any way nor will you become comrade, you may get called it if you admit to reading it but I can't help that.
Now guys you can quote this post, rage a little, attempt to pick some arguments and claim I'm supporting rape and murder but I probably won't reply to you.
Your post doesn't make me rage. It makes me despair a little.
The Pope is doing what the Pope always does in these kinds of situations, and that's playing both sides. And why would anyone with kind of intelligence take the word of a Pope or the Vatican about anything? Seriously, they have had to backtrack so many times on things they said and constantly apologising for the how corrupt and immoral they have been throughout the ages. The only reason you are saying the Pope sounds intelligent is that he said something that is partially inline with the pathetic agenda that you are trying to push.
The rest of your post is just nonsense, It's like you search the web for articles that support your narrative while completely ignoring the overwhelming number of articles that don't. Like the Guardian's article. That's an opinion piece, not a news article. It's written for precisely this reason, to provoke controversy. The NATO situation is a lot more complex than that opinion article suggests. And it conveniently leaves out the fact that Russia Invaded in 2014. That Ukraine didn't want to join any military bloc until after that. That public opinion in Ukraine went from overwhelmingly against Joining Nato before 2014 to overwhelmingly for joining since 2014. That Zelenskyy has been pushing to join NATO since he got elected.
Did you also know that in 2010, Ukraine had passed a law in their parliament that stopped them joining any military bloc. So the Ukrainian people were against joining NATO, the Government had passed laws to that effect. Yet, in 2014 Russia Invaded anyway and took over Crimea. That fear of further invasions is what prompted Ukraine to really push hard to join NATO.
Since you keep saying that Ukraine aren't innocent in all this. Can you please explain what they did that made Russia invade in 2014?
This is not about if the war is justified, it is not and I'm not sure why I keep needing to repeat this.
Now guys you can quote this post, rage a little, attempt to pick some arguments and claim I'm supporting rape and murder but I probably won't reply to you.
Only think of all the Russians innocent of Putins aggression who are going to have really crap lives for the duration of sanctions, a long time, and the additional time to recover from it. The African nations expecting grain to be delivered and whose poorest people may starve or suffer other privations. The Ukrainians bombed out of their cities, murdered and their homes destroyed.
Compare with the oligarchs who may have lost the odd yacht or are in reduced circumstances but still multi millionaires. And the scum politicians in Russia allowing Putin to rape and pillage all of the above in their names.
No contest whose fault it us really. We have a responsibility though to maintain the sanctions and stop paying Putin billions for energy.
Some may say even if the West had bended to Russias requests that Russia could have still invaded and if that is how you feel then fair enough and it is a valid point as they could have, I do not share that opinion and feel more effort should have been made as the Ukrainian/Russian people are now paying the price.
This does not mean that the invasion is justified and I have to keep repeating that as people repeatedly rage and lose the means to comprehend what is actually wrote in my posts, they just keep trying to argue to get one over.
I think this is just naivety, the pope mentioned provocation, you seem to have bought into that aspect too yet this is mostly just buying into Russian propaganda at this point, most people can quite clearly see that this is more about Russian imperialist expansion and the desire to retake land and control other periphery areas in their supposed sphere of influence.
Ukraine simply existing as a liberal democracy is the provocation here, other than being ruled by a Russian puppet leader and bending the knee to Moscow there isn't much that could be done to prevent this and even that isn't necessarily a guarantee that Putin wouldn't still want at least a land bridge to Crimea and a chunk of the East.
I was listening to the War on the Rocks podcast, and for the 2nd time, the guest said that the real pain from Russia's sanctions will come in July/August. Why? What happens then?
I was listening to the War on the Rocks podcast, and for the 2nd time, the guest said that the real pain from Russia's sanctions will come in July/August. Why? What happens then?
I was listening to the War on the Rocks podcast, and for the 2nd time, the guest said that the real pain from Russia's sanctions will come in July/August. Why? What happens then?
i have a question, who is going to win? what happens if Ukraine win uh what does that look like?
Russia retreat back in to Russia and Ukraine does what? Ukraine starts bombing Russia? nana Ukraine
be like, oh Russia we forgive. hah.
i guess i'm asking is, West keep arming Ukraine (and anyone that will fight for those flag's) to
where all Russia has left is 6000+ nuclear weapons. then what? Russia just backs down?
this is looking really bad, USA is in this for, a wild guess... $200+ billion. just to weaken Russia.
nothing to worry about i can't change anything, but i can moan heh.
I honestly don't know. I do think an outcome will be heavy investment in defense spending now though. The money USA spent out will likely be recouped in sales I suspect. Even if Russia thinks they are harming USA financially from spending on Ukraine, they still now need to retrain troops and replace arms with more modern equipment, as it's clear they can barely make ground on a much smaller enemy without applying a scorched earth policy.
No-one wins, I think. Russia will have permanently damaged its economy and position in the world as well as weakening its military and crushing the reputation of the country and belief in its military strength. The whole thing is an embarrassing misadventure for a spent super-power with delusions of its former grandeur. It may even lead to the slow disintegration of the Russian Empire. Ukraine is probably going to lose territory, and will have suffered a massive loss of life, a traumatised generation, and a phenomenal reconstruction bill. The sharks will circle looking to snap up juicy parts of its economy in return for necessary rebuilding. Promises of entry into the EU are likely to prove empty for at least a decade.
But I don't think we're anywhere near an end to this yet. Most observers seem to think a war grind on for several years is most likely.
Russia retreat back in to Russia and Ukraine does what? Ukraine starts bombing Russia? nana Ukraine
be like, oh Russia we forgive. hah.
There's no way Ukraine will attack Russian territory. The grudge between the nations will be long held, but Ukraine hasn't got the military - even with all the Western backing - to invade Russia, even without the likely consequences of restarting the war if they did. Nor is there any realistic chance of a nuclear escalation without such an invasion.
15-Jun-2022 12:46:03 - Russia’s Gazprom: Natural Gas Output Was 226 bcm in January 1-June 15
15-Jun-2022 12:46:10 - Russia’s Gazprom: Natural Gas Exports to Non-CIS Countries At 65.6 bcm From Jan 1-June 15
15-Jun-2022 14:08:48 - Russia’s Gazprom: Capacity of Onland Compressor Station at Nord Srteam 1 Gas Pipeline Declines to 67 mln Cubic Metres per Day
15-Jun-2022 14:10:13 - Russia’s Gazprom: Further Scales Down Use of Siemens-Made Equipment
15-Jun-2022 13:17:53 - German Finance Minister Lindner: Currently 4.48 bln Euros of Russian Assets Frozen in Germany
15-Jun-2022 13:21:30 - German Finance Minister Lindner: Many Open Questions in Eurogroup Negotiations on Banking Union
15-Jun-2022 14:47:17 - EXCLUSIVE- OMV CEO: 200,000 bpd Schwechat Oil Refinery Running at Around 20% Capacity
15-Jun-2022 14:47:18 - OMV CEO: Fixing Schwechat Crude Unit to Take “Several Weeks”, Insurance To Cover Some Financial Loss
15-Jun-2022 14:47:19 - OMV CEO: Could Import Diesel, Jet Fuel, Other Products From Europe, Middle East Via Trieste, Koper During Repairs
15-Jun-2022 14:47:20 - OMV Is Paying Russia’s Gazprom in Euros, Gazprom Still Delivering Gas -Ceo
15-Jun-2022 14:47:21 - OMV CEO: Austrian Gas Storage Over 60% Full
15-Jun-2022 14:07:02 - Putin Says He and China’s Xi Agreed to Expand Cooperation in Energy, Finance, Industry Due to Western Sanctions — RIA
15-Jun-2022 15:03:01 - Russian C.bank Recommends That Banks Refrain From Paying Dividends and Bonuses in the Short And Medium Term — IFAX
15-Jun-2022 15:23:00 - Russia’s U.N. Envoy: Russia ‘Could Provide Safe Passage’ for Ukraine Grain Shipments, But ‘Not Responsible’ for Establishing Corridors
15-Jun-2022 14:57:08 - Biden Admin Planning on More Funding for Military Weapons, Equipment for Ukraine; New Tranche to Be More Than $650 mln — Bloomberg Reporter on Twitter
15-Jun-2022 14:58:25 - Biden Admin’s New Tranche of Military Support for Ukraine to Include Vehicle-Mounted Harpoon Anti-Ship Missiles — Bloomberg Reporter on Twitter
15-Jun-2022 15:06:31 - White House Expected to Announce Around $1 bln of Artillery, Anti-Ship Missiles and Other Weaponry for Ukraine — Sources Familiar
15-Jun-2022 15:08:56 - U.S. Treasury Website: U.S. Adds Three Individuals to Counterterrorism Designation List, Including One Russian, One Ukrainian and One Sweden
15-Jun-2022 15:10:04 - U.S. Treasury Website: Two Individuals Added to U.S. Counterterrorism Designation List Linked to Russian Imperial Movement
15-Jun-2022 15:17:39 - French President Macron: We Cannot Allow Showing Signs of Weakness Towards Russia
15-Jun-2022 15:18:41 - French President Macron: We Must Keep Supporting Ukraine and Reinforce Credibility of Our Dissuasion Capacities
15-Jun-2022 15:22:39 - French President Macron: Moldova’s Wish To Join EU Is Perfectly Legitimate
15-Jun-2022 15:32:38 - French President Macron, Asked About to Granting Official EU Candidate Status to Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine: I Want to Be Able to Reach Consensus Among EU Member States
15-Jun-2022 14:35:08 - Gas Flows in Nord-Stream Russia-Germany Gas Pipeline Unchanged at 44.9 mln kWh/hr at 1500 Local Time Compared to Previous Hour After Gazprom Said It Was Cutting Capacity
15-Jun-2022 14:58:05 - German Network Regulator: We Are Impact of Further Reduction in Supplies via Nord Stream Pipeline
15-Jun-2022 14:58:29 - German Network Regulator: Supplies Continue to Be Secure
15-Jun-2022 15:28:41 - German Energy Minister Habeck: Russian Side’s Justification for Cutting Pipeline Gas Flows Is a Pretext
15-Jun-2022 15:29:05 - German Energy Minister Habeck: It Is a Strategy to Sow Uncertainty and Raise Prices
15-Jun-2022 15:29:23 - German Energy Minister Habeck: We Can Get Necessary Quantities From the Market, Albeit at Higher Prices
15-Jun-2022 15:29:36 - German Energy Minister Habeck: Supply Is Secure
15-Jun-2022 15:29:52 - German Energy Minister Habeck: Development Shows That Energy Savings Are The Order of the Day
15-Jun-2022 15:30:03 - German Energy Minister Habeck: We Will Take Govt Measures As Neeeded
15-Jun-2022 16:48:37 - Ukraine Gas Production Could Fall to 16-17 Billion Cubic Metres in 2022 From About 20 bcm in 2021 -Energy Minister
15-Jun-2022 17:00:00 - Russia’s Weekly Deflation at 0.14% in Week To June 10- Stats Service
15-Jun-2022 17:10:00 - Russian Economy Ministry Says Annual Consumer Inflation at 16.69% As of June 10 Vs 17.02% a Week Earlier
15-Jun-2022 17:10:25 - Turkish Foreign Minister: On Sweden and Finland’s NATO Membership, Documents Received By Ankara “Do Not Meet Expectations”
15-Jun-2022 17:26:52 - German Defence Minister: Berlin Will Supply Three Mars II Multiple Rocket Launchers to Ukraine
15-Jun-2022 17:31:06 - Biden: Reaffirmed in Call With Zelenskiy His Commitment That U.S Will Stand By Ukraine
15-Jun-2022 17:31:40 - Biden: Informed Zelenskiy That United States Is Providing Another $1 Billion In Security Assistance for Ukraine
15-Jun-2022 17:32:30 - Biden: Is Also Announcing Additional $225 Million in Humanitarian Assistance To Help People Inside Ukraine
15-Jun-2022 17:34:29 - Biden: Part of $1 Billion in Security Assistance Is to Support Ukraine’s Defensive Operations in the Donbas
15-Jun-2022 17:55:44 - ECB’s Lagarde: Ukraine Conflict Means Many Countries Will Run Short of Cereals in Not Too Distant Future
15-Jun-2022 17:56:32 - ECB’s Lagarde: Ukraine Conflict Shows Europe Was Dangerously Dependent on Hostile Suppliers Like Russia
15-Jun-2022 19:00:49 - Fed: Inflation Remains Elevated, Reflecting Pandemic-Related Supply and Demand Imbalances, Higher Energy Prices, Broader Price Pressures
15-Jun-2022 18:37:29 - Canada to Provide C$9 mln Worth of Replacement Barrels for M777 Howitzer Artillery Guns in Additional Military Aid to Ukraine — Statement
15-Jun-2022 19:23:12 - Ukraine Foreign Minister: I Thanked Blinken for Latest U.S. Military Aid, Stressed Need for More Heavy Weapons
15-Jun-2022 19:50:14 - In Call With Ukraine’s Zelenkskiy, UK PM Johnson Said UK Would Continue to Do All It Could To Support Ukraine With Defensive Aid
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