$70billion of oil and gas won't be worth a penny when the entire continent is an irradiated wasteland... This is the only outcome of a MAD confrontation. Putin knows this... His Chiefs know this.... All their bluster about nukes is sabre rattling, the equivalent of the bully yelling at you to get what he wants.
You are buying into their propaganda and posturing for no good reason.
"This is all totally bonkers, I just don't wanna get beaten up in the playground for my lunch money" .... so you give him your lunch money (Ukraine). Guess what happens the next day? He's back for more of your lunch money.
I think it's fair to say that almost nobody want's to get nuked... and that includes Putin and his Chiefs, they know the result of MAD just the same as we do, nobody wins.
Quite no one wants to be nuked, but there is a big difference between being able to rationalise its always been (since invention) and will remain so (we cant uninvent them) and being a coward wetting your knickers and suggesting millions of people should bow down to a terrible regime just so you can sleep easy.
Really the NATO or non NATO will make little difference, if we are seen to be weak it will embolden Putin. I cannot imagine the knicker wetters now would be any different if Putin invaded Poland, I can see it now
"yeah but its Poland they should have done/do xyz, I don't want to risk nuclear war based on them we should say we aren't going to apply mutual defence as Putin may nuke us if we do"
Russia has been a terrorist state for decades it's a shame it takes a war and the displacement of millions to get this formally considered, better late them never I suppose.
Quite no one wants to be nuked, but there is a big difference between being able to rationalise its always been (since invention) and will remain so (we cant uninvent them) and being a coward wetting your knickers and suggesting millions of people should bow down to a terrible regime just so you can sleep easy.
Really the NATO or non NATO will make little difference, if we are seen to be weak it will embolden Putin. I cannot imagine the knicker wetters now would be any different if Putin invaded Poland, I can see it now
"yeah but its Poland they should have done/do xyz, I don't want to risk nuclear war based on them we should say we aren't going to apply mutual defence as Putin may nuke us if we do"
I totally agree 100%. The notion of capitulation, on any level is just totally unacceptable.
With all the noise and shouting from the Kremlin about Sweden and Finland and their desire (now greatly escalated) to join NATO and the various threats there-in, I think it can be a pretty fair assumption to make that he would *not* stop at Ukraine, even IF we appeased him and gave him the whole damn country. You just know he would be eyeballing Finland next...
Zelensky offered that as a concession, weird how the Russians haven't left yet. Nato being such a threat and all that they're currently moving troops out of bases next to Finland who are soon to join. Odd that, almost like Nato membership was a bs story to sell to the gullible.
He did but after Russia invaded and had taken/occupied Ukrainian land, a smarter man would have made that concession earlier.
Russia will now want to take Ukrainian land as a prize for all their efforts and losses which they have had many.
*Russian Ambassador to Britain: Boris Johnson’s Fall Is a Just Reward for a ‘Belligerent’ Anti-Russian Policy of Support for Ukraine
*Russian Ambassador to Britain: Boris Johnson Failed to Focus on the Economic Needs of the British People - ‘He Left the Country Behind’
*Russian Ambassador to Britain: We Would Prefer Someone Less ‘Antagonistic or Belligerent’ As PM
*Putin: The Collective West, Led by the U.S., Has Been Extremely Aggressive Toward Russia for Decades
*Putin: Sanctions Are Causing Us Difficulties, but Not on the Scale Intended
*Putin: West Has Failed in New Attempt to Contain Russia
*Putin: This Is the Start of Transition to a Multi-Polar World
*Putin: West Is Degenerating Into Totalitarianism
*Putin: We Hear That They Want to Beat Us on the Battlefield - What Can I Say, Let Them Try
*Putin: We Don’t Reject Peace Talks but the Further It Goes, the Harder It Will Be to Reach Agreement With Us
*White House’s Kirby: Biden Meeting With Gulf Leaders to Include Bilateral Talks With Saudi King and His Leadership Team
*White House’s Kirby: Biden to Work on Getting Yemen Ceasefire Expended
*White House’s Kirby: Biden Meeting With Saudi King Will Include Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman
*White House’s Kirby: Biden Expected to Raise Human Rights During Middle East Trip
*White House’s Kirby: Biden’s Only Bilateral Discussions of a “Set Piece Nature” Scheduled in Saudi Will Be With King, Leadership
*White House’s Kirby: Biden Wants to Discuss “Energy Security” in Meeting With GCC
what will Russia do when we (west) give Ukraine enough hardware
and flag wearing troops to repel them back into Russia. Russia have
thousands of tactical nuclear weapons, Ukraine have none.
Ukraine is not a member of NATO. just pointing out the obvious.
I suspect they will try to carry on the fight cross border and via longer range means
If they are willing to use nukes they are willing to use nukes, IMO the line on the map will not influence that mindset
IF they are willing to use nukes due to being kicked out of Ukraine do you really think they would not be willing to use nukes if we didn't allow them to roll over Finland or Poland or whatever state Putin fancied next?
He did but after Russia invaded and had taken Ukrainian land, a smarter man would have made that concession earlier.
Russia will now want to take Ukrainian land as a prize for all their efforts and losses which they have had many.
Oh why do you quote me when all you speak is lies, every time it's back peddling and unable to comprehend English when I post news articles as evidence.
I've posted evidence enough times to prove Russia wanted talks over Ukraine joining NATO and they said it would lead to war.
I even posted articles where Ukrainian officials aknowledged it would lead to war with Russia but they didn't back down but if you are unable to read English written articles then there is nothing at all I can do to help you see this point.
I suspect they will try to carry on the fight cross border and via longer range means
If they are willing to use nukes they are willing to use nukes, IMO the line on the map will not influence that mindset
IF they are willing to use nukes due to being kicked out of Ukraine do you really think they would not be willing to use nukes if we didn't allow them to roll over Finland or Poland or whatever state Putin fancied next?
Oh why do you quote me when all you speak is lies, every time it's back peddling and unable to comprehend English when I post news articles as evidence.
but your lies are pathetic, you come try and argue a point then 5 minutes later you are unable to comprehend English and you want to talk to me about some youtuber who sells you magical bath water.
IF they are willing to use nukes due to being kicked out of Ukraine do you really think they would not be willing to use nukes if we didn't allow them to roll over Finland or Poland or whatever state Putin fancied next?
“We don’t have problems with Sweden and Finland like we do with Ukraine,” the Russian president told a news conference in the Turkmenistan capital of Ashgabat. “We don’t have territorial differences.”
“If Finland and Sweden wish to, they can join. That’s up to them. They can join whatever they want.”
However, he warned “if military contingents and military infrastructure were deployed there, we would be obliged to respond symmetrically and raise the same threats for those territories where threats have arisen for us”.
Just calling you on your whataboutism. You were the one to bring up American (mis)adventures in the ME, I asked you what your point was - whatever it is it has nothing to do with Russia in Ukraine. It doesn't excuse them in any way. Even if it did Russia's behaviour in the ME is hardly any better so again, no excuse.
Again like every other time, rather than a discussion of points you want to make this into a silly argument.
I would say quote me when you want to talk about the actual discussion in hand but every time you backtrack and lie so I won't....seriously just save it.
Just calling you on your whataboutism. You were the one to bring up American (mis)adventures in the ME, I asked you what your point was - whatever it is it has nothing to do with Russia in Ukraine. It doesn't excuse them in any way. Even if it did Russia's behaviour in the ME is hardly any better so again, no excuse.
Again like every other time, rather than a discussion of points you want to make this into a silly argument.
I would say quote me when you want to talk about the actual discussion in hand but every time you backtrack and lie so I won't....seriously just save it.
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