Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Alex_6n2 · 14 Sep 2022 at 17:31

Not sure we need to go around the principles of Supply & Demand for a Globally traded commodity again do we?

Both are elastic. Putin has been a naughty boy with supply of gas etc etc.

Worth actually reading the Centrica annual report. British Gas (Retail) made less profit largely because of the balance between OFGEM price caps and wholesale market spot price increases

It's not a story of "Fat cat gas execs are greedy". It's "Putin has destroyed European gas supplies whilst demand jumps due to Covid recovery"

Energy policy failures that have focused electricity generation on Gas compound the situation

If you're in the energy business and have assets already built at fixed operating cost (e.g. Nuclear) then you've made extra money because the market is suddenly willing to pay more for your stuff (e.g. electricity)

Over time supply will be increased and prices will fall.

Blame Putin, not greed :rolleyes:

chockimon · 14 Sep 2022 at 17:49

Alex_6n2 said:
Please explain how it is greed? Who is being greedy in this scenario?

You must work for BP's PR department.

Everything that is going on right now in this world is orchestrated by Western governments/WEF & Their puppet politicians/global elite/Energy Companies etc and it is nothing but criminality/greed with one aim and that is to destroy and bankrupt the current financial system, economies and people, especially the middle class and poor. It's all part of their great reset agenda and no it's not a conspiracy. It's happening now!

chockimon · 14 Sep 2022 at 17:56

Alex_6n2 said:
Not sure we need to go around the principles of Supply & Demand for a Globally traded commodity again do we?

Both are elastic. Putin has been a naughty boy with supply of gas etc etc.

Worth actually reading the Centrica annual report. British Gas (Retail) made less profit largely because of the balance between OFGEM price caps and wholesale market spot price increases

It's not a story of "Fat cat gas execs are greedy". It's "Putin has destroyed European gas supplies whilst demand jumps due to Covid recovery"

Energy policy failures that have focused electricity generation on Gas compound the situation

If you're in the energy business and have assets already built at fixed operating cost (e.g. Nuclear) then you've made extra money because the market is suddenly willing to pay more for your stuff (e.g. electricity)

Over time supply will be increased and prices will fall.

Blame Putin, not greed

Typical Western propaganda. The great reset has been in full swing for a while now, causing worldwide shortages and price increases long before Putin invaded Ukraine. Keep buying into all the political BS.

Zenduri · 14 Sep 2022 at 17:58

Zenduri said:
See below scenarios

1) You are on current SVT
You will move to the new SVT of 34p elec and 10.3p gas as default

2) You fixed at 44p elec and 11.3 gas
You will see your fixed prices be reduced to 34p elec and 10.3p gas

3) You fixed at 68p elec and 16p gas
Your fixed rates will be reduced by 17p Elec and 4.2 gas and your NEW rates would be 51p elec and 11.8 gas which is above the Gov cap

4) You fixed and 1 of your rates, either offpeak elec or gas is lower than the gov cap but the onpeak or elec is higher
This is unclear and i've seen no information regarding what happens here but it would be reasonable to assume a 50/50 chance the higher rate would drop to whatever the cap price is.

There is no info from any supplier that i know of at the moment or the Gov as to whats going to happen for E7 electric customers.

Based on the above and current info. If you are fixed and you fall into scenario 3 it would be beneficial to exit your fixed price if you have low or no exit fees and go onto the Gov cap. However considering how quickly the info is changing i would wait to see what your supplier communicates to you first.

Gixer said:
I don't think Those on lower fixed tariffs will see the same discount. They'll be reduced to the lowest SVR as stated by the government's cap.

What I want to know, as do others, is will Those who have signed into higher fixed tariffs, to start after October 1st, have there unit charges dropped to the cap or only dropped by the rates the government mention in their policy.

I've a reply from eon but they've not understood my question and think I want to change to SVR today, which of course I don't. I've seen on the eon community forum there are people asking similar but there are no definite answers as of yet.

I am lucky, there is zero exit fee for me.

From internal conversations and the info we have from the gov so far this is my interpretation. They have been loading in the new prices today so they should show shortly and it should show the impact on fixed tarrifs

Scougar · 14 Sep 2022 at 18:04

chockimon said:
Typical Western propaganda. The great reset has been in full swing for a while now, causing worldwide shortages and price increases long before Putin invaded Ukraine. Keep buying into all the political BS.

You do understand that the 'great reset' hasn't actually happened right? That would literally mean writing off all the debt so that we started again. This is the second conspiracy style post you've put up, the other in the Ukraine thread. Good luck to you on your journey.

Richie · 14 Sep 2022 at 18:27

Zenduri said:
From internal conversations and the info we have from the gov so far this is my interpretation. They have been loading in the new prices today so they should show shortly and it should show the impact on fixed tarrifs

On Next Online v17 so 50.71 for Elec and 12.86 for Gas... Those 17p and 4p reductions will just take me below the new freeze so I should be ok to just stick on it and get the freeze prices of 34p and 10.3p

Zenduri · 14 Sep 2022 at 18:31

Richie said:
On Next Online v17 so 50.71 for Elec and 12.86 for Gas... Those 17p and 4p reductions will just take me below the new freeze so I should be ok to just stick on it and get the freeze prices of 34p and 10.3p

Yes In theory you would fall into Scenario 2 in my post so you would be reduced to the gov cap prices of 34p elec and 10.3p gas and you shouldnt need to do anything. They have input the pricing this afternoon so people should start getting communications about it shortly.

Alex_6n2 · 14 Sep 2022 at 18:37

chockimon said:
Typical Western propaganda. The great reset has been in full swing for a while now, causing worldwide shortages and price increases long before Putin invaded Ukraine. Keep buying into all the political BS.

OK I hadn't realised the tin foil hat brigade was around :cry:

If you want a nice fact to disprove your point:

Gazprom (Russian state owned Gas supplier to EU) started reducing Nord Stream 1 gas flows in January 2022, before they invaded Ukraine

Equally, Russia has long been pressuring/lobbying EU politicians to buy Russian Gas instead of building Nuclear (See Germany...)

Your "Great Reset" is actually Putin playing Chess against the EU whilst undertaking the genocide of Ukrainian people

chrcoluk · 14 Sep 2022 at 20:31

Alex_6n2 said:
Not sure we need to go around the principles of Supply & Demand for a Globally traded commodity again do we?

Both are elastic. Putin has been a naughty boy with supply of gas etc etc.

Worth actually reading the Centrica annual report. British Gas (Retail) made less profit largely because of the balance between OFGEM price caps and wholesale market spot price increases

It's not a story of "Fat cat gas execs are greedy". It's "Putin has destroyed European gas supplies whilst demand jumps due to Covid recovery"

Energy policy failures that have focused electricity generation on Gas compound the situation

If you're in the energy business and have assets already built at fixed operating cost (e.g. Nuclear) then you've made extra money because the market is suddenly willing to pay more for your stuff (e.g. electricity)

Over time supply will be increased and prices will fall.

Blame Putin, not greed

You was told Centrica then looked at BG only which is just a small division of Centrica.

Look under the Infrastructure part of that table. Overall profit also multiplied by 5x.

Alex_6n2 · 14 Sep 2022 at 20:47

chrcoluk said:
You was told Centrica then looked at BG only which is just a small division of Centrica.

Look under the Infrastructure part of that table. Overall profit also multiplied by 5x.

Yes, given the original post was about British Gas bills me pointing that part out was applicable....

I then also explained the Nuclear situation, which covers the infrastructure part of the group

You missed the bit about Spirit Energy (They do Solar PV installations) and their trading division (the traders actually buying/selling wholesale energy)

The table is totalled at the bottom. It's not "also"

Anything else or do you need to go back to school?

jpaul · 14 Sep 2022 at 21:09

Ursula speech on the news said they will reclaim/levvy 120Bn across europe, which must include Centrica's (upcoming) nuclear profit, all levelled at 18p/Kwhr,
so the books will not look as good.
(watching Ursula - maybe Truss will grow into the job, but she communicates one hell of a lot better than Truss, in English )
They/Centrica probably need a few billion in contingencies for the nuclear repairs, let alone, what reserves do they put aside for future decommissioning.

wildman · 14 Sep 2022 at 21:55

chockimon said:
You must work for BP's PR department. Everything that is going on right now in this world is orchestrated by Western governments/WEF & Their puppet politicians/global elite/Energy Companies etc and it is nothing but criminality/greed with one aim and that is to destroy and bankrupt the current financial system, economies and people, especially the middle class and poor. It's all part of their great reset agenda and no it's not a conspiracy. It's happening now!

Your FSB handler will be taking you back to Kuznetsky Most very soon as I think your cover has been blown........................

chrcoluk · 14 Sep 2022 at 22:03

Alex_6n2 said:
Yes, given the original post was about British Gas bills me pointing that part out was applicable....

I then also explained the Nuclear situation, which covers the infrastructure part of the group

You missed the bit about Spirit Energy (They do Solar PV installations) and their trading division (the traders actually buying/selling wholesale energy)

The table is totalled at the bottom. It's not "also"

Anything else or do you need to go back to school?

I guess I need to go back to school if we going to pretend there is not wealthy companies behind the suppliers.

delta0 · 14 Sep 2022 at 23:12

jpaul said:
Ursula speech on the news said they will reclaim/levvy 120Bn across europe, which must include Centrica's (upcoming) nuclear profit, all levelled at 18p/Kwhr,
so the books will not look as good.
(watching Ursula - maybe Truss will grow into the job, but she communicates one hell of a lot better than Truss, in English )
They/Centrica probably need a few billion in contingencies for the nuclear repairs, let alone, what reserves do they put aside for future decommissioning.

They are decoupling the price of electric from gas source electric or not? If they decouple then they aren’t getting even remotely that much. It will revert back to a few % of profit which will be a magnitude or probably 2 less tax intake.

mattyprice4004 · 15 Sep 2022 at 00:06

chockimon said:
Typical Western propaganda. The great reset has been in full swing for a while now, causing worldwide shortages and price increases long before Putin invaded Ukraine. Keep buying into all the political BS.

Shhhh, that’s enough beers for today.

Alex_6n2 · 15 Sep 2022 at 09:31

chrcoluk said:
I guess I need to go back to school if we going to pretend there is not wealthy companies behind the suppliers.

Who's pretending that? No one

The point is, if a company has invested Billions in infrastructure to supply a product that suddenly has less global supply (thanks Russia) and thus a sudden increase in price the market is willing to pay, it's not greed

If you are stubborn and refuse to pay that market price, someone else in the world will buy it and you will go without.

If the price doesn't increase, demand won't correct and supply will fall short.

It's not rocket science.

chrcoluk · 15 Sep 2022 at 09:41

Alex_6n2 said:
Who's pretending that? No one

The point is, if a company has invested Billions in infrastructure to supply a product that suddenly has less global supply (thanks Russia) and thus a sudden increase in price the market is willing to pay, it's not greed

If you are stubborn and refuse to pay that market price, someone else in the world will buy it and you will go without.

If the price doesn't increase, demand won't correct and supply will fall short.

It's not rocket science.

Definition of greed from the dictionary.

"intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food."

Siliconslave · 15 Sep 2022 at 09:44

There are a few problems with this, idea of a 'free market' controlling the price and bringing it to a natural level.
Firstly its hugely open to external, malicious manipulation (ie Putin), secondly supply is mostly controlled by the same companies that profit from depressed supply, and thirdly its not a 'luxury' item that can be ignored or reduced when times are hard, its needed for production of almost every basic human necessity apart from oxygen.

Alex_6n2 · 15 Sep 2022 at 10:48

chrcoluk said:
Definition of greed from the dictionary.

"intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food."

You're attempting to apply a philosophical idea of motivation to a free market made up of 100s of thousands of people. Pretty stupid.

Siliconslave said:
There are a few problems with this, idea of a 'free market' controlling the price and bringing it to a natural level.
Firstly its hugely open to external, malicious manipulation (ie Putin), secondly supply is mostly controlled by the same companies that profit from depressed supply, and thirdly its not a 'luxury' item that can be ignored or reduced when times are hard, its needed for production of almost every basic human necessity apart from oxygen.

Arguing energy is a human right is a fair position, but unless the UK is able to increase its national production to meet national demand (Hint - this requires investment (profit..)) it will continue to be a balance of global supply/demand

Similarly, if the UK did go totally independent and capped its prices to remove profit we could then argue philosophically about providing some of that energy to other places in the world that need it (but at what price?!?! Hint - free market). Equally people and companies in the UK would respond to low energy prices by using more. Thus creating a runaway of demand pushing us back into a need for buying from elsewhere (there is a max UK energy production level)

Without increasing prices, people wouldn't be prompted to reduce their demand or shift their dependencies (e.g. get solar PV on your roof)

A (Correctly regulated) free market is the best way, on balance, to create a fair system.

No one cared when Oil/Gas companies lost Billions and racked up debt in 2020. You only care now because it's costing you money. Everything comes at a price. Use less &/or upskill to get a better job....

chrcoluk · 15 Sep 2022 at 12:26

So the missing "up to" is now added to the government fact sheet, floor set to the rate of the EPG.

Interestingly the government has also said if people want to change tariffs its between them and the supplier, so things like exit fees might still remain, its confirmed that the subsidy may not be enough to get the most expensive fixes down to EPG level.

Martin has also tweeted the government has apparently only committed to 3 month contracts with the suppliers although the 2 year committal to consumers stands.