Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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They won't be recognised as part of Russia by anyone except Russia and their few despot allies.

If they can even hold a referendum in the middle of a warzone to begin with, didn't work so well in Kherson.

So in my opinion it's a meaningless change except for how Russia can legally change things internally for their own mechanics. I have hope that Russia can be pushed out before anything can get far enough to even hold one though.

To me at least, it's pretty clear that Russia is getting more and more desperate here, the fact they are trying to rush these referendums suggests they don't think they can hold the territory long enough to hold them at a more leisurely pace.
 
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Minusorange said:

Be interesting what the implications of this result is, if after becoming part of Russia Ukraine manage to retake the areas
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So now Russia can lose their own territory? Even better for Putin's longevity.

Only thing I can see here is trying to use 'invasion of Russia' as a pretence to fully mobilise. Which is going to go down swimmingly in Moscow.
 
HungryHippos said:
They won't be recognised as part of Russia by anyone except Russia and their few despot allies.

If they can even hold a referendum in the middle of a warzone to begin with, didn't work so well in Kherson.

So in my opinion it's a meaningless change except for how Russia can legally change things internally for their own mechanics. I have hope that Russia can be pushed out before anything can get far enough to even hold one though.

To me at least, it's pretty clear that Russia is getting more and more desperate here, the fact they are trying to rush these referendums suggests they don't think they can hold the territory long enough to hold them at a more leisurely pace.
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More likely every polling station is going to have a HIMARS missile dropped on it :D
 
I guess even if only Russia recognises the territory as belonging to them maybe that's all they want. After a referendum then continued Ukrainian attacks could be framed as an attack on Russia itself to the domestic population for propaganda purposes. If Putin wants to try and get the population a bit more involved and a bit less passive in a lead up to greater recruitment efforts and eventual full mobilisation ir some other escalation then it might be useful. Could remove any potential objections to sending existing conscripts to the front line too.

Or, 5D chess time, Putin stuffs the ballot boxes with 'no' votes and uses it as an excuse to withdraw Russian forces in a slightly less embarrassing way than them being militarily forced out :p.

Politically risky for him either way though...
 
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HungryHippos said:
They won't be recognised as part of Russia by anyone except Russia
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But that's all Russia cares about, they don't care if nobody else accepts their reality of territorial ownership, it's probably part of the ground work being prepared for full mobilisation and they probably accept they will lose some territory but now that it's Russia they probably think Russians will actually want to fight for it

 
Does seem that full mobilisation (or something closer to it) is getting closer to being in the table... Should be a warning to Europe that we need to step up arms deliveries and training of Ukrainiam soldiers as much as possible to give them the best chance of beating off any fresh Russian offensive with large numbers of troops.

Still seems like Russia would have very significant challenges if they did go down that route though - training capacity, quality of equipment, poor morale in existing forces, a population that aren't really that motivated to actually fight for Putin even if they support him in general, reduced ability to protect other borders, more potential for internal instability in regime if things get worse for Russia etc...
 
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Tephnos said:
I heard those elections were cancelled after the successful counteroffensive?
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That was Kherson I think. They’ve started making more noises about getting them done in the Donbas with their ‘leaders’ calling for urgent referendum.
Not spurred by the Kremlin at all, no sirree.
 
GreatAuk said:
Does seem that full mobilisation (or something closer to it) is getting closer to being in the table... Should be a warning to Europe that we need to step up arms deliveries and training of Ukrainiam soldiers as much as possible to give them the best chance of beating off any fresh Russian offensive with large numbers of troops.

Still seems like Russia would have very significant challenges if they did go down that route though - training capacity, quality of equipment, poor morale in existing forces, a population that aren't really that motivated to actually fight for Putin even if they support him in general, reduced ability to protect other borders, more potential for internal instability in regime if things get worse for Russia etc...
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Yes fully agree, the warning signs are there, more stuff to Ukraine is very much needed.

Does mean Russia will be admitting they need to declare war though, which is what they've been carefully trying to avoid until now.

I hope the Russian populace are ready go charge head first to their doom for the aspirations of one mad ruler.
 
Well, I hope Kyiv has their new air defences in place as I fully expect, if Russia go full mental, they’ll ‘start’ their war with an attempt to wipe out the Ukraine leadership.
How many cruise missiles do they have left in stock though? Half?
Full mobilisation will hopefully spur the people into action. Although wouldn’t surprise me if the mobilisation occurs in the poorer areas first with just token efforts in the wealthier regions.
 
Washout said:
Well, I hope Kyiv has their new air defences in place as I fully expect, if Russia go full mental, they’ll ‘start’ their war with an attempt to wipe out the Ukraine leadership.
How many cruise missiles do they have left in stock though? Half?
Full mobilisation will hopefully spur the people into action. Although wouldn’t surprise me if the mobilisation occurs in the poorer areas first with just token efforts in the wealthier regions.
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Full mobilisation would really test Putins grip on power. It's interesting to see interviews of people in Moscow laughing and joking about Ukranians not existing and needing wiping out but when the Moscovites are being handed a Moisin-Nagant and their grandfathers helmet and stuck on a truck across the border it'll be less funny I bet.
 
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