Motorsport Off Topic Thread

DeliciousStorage said:
If they did significantly overspend it's outright cheating and the only appropriate punishment is meaningful point deductions or disqualification from both championships.
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By “both” I take it you mean the constructors and drivers for 2022? Or everything for 2021 and 2022? :p If the latter there is grounds for that considering who knows if their overspend went into the 21 or 22 car.

Honestly I say this in completely, undeniably biased terms, but I think the FIA have a great opportunity to put 2021 right, by disqualifying RB from everything this year. Max doesnt win it, RB can feel what it’s like to have a championship stolen from them, and it’s done without revisiting 2021 or pandering to the anti-Lewis trolls by handing him something (eg 2021) on a plate. It makes it less about Lewis versus Max, more about fairness.
 
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cuke2u said:
I am referring to Toto and Ferrari, just to clarify...
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Sure. There are some interesting messages coming out from RB about how nobody but the FIA should know the outcome of this and RB don't even know. So why is Toto talking as if he knows everything? The initial reports from the Italian media (coincidence maybe?) did nothing to substantiate their claims..

so in essence this is a lot of drama over absolutely nothing that has been proven to date. RB might have a point that its a story to detract away from the failures of other teams, it may also be that RB did mess up and will face judgement as determined by the FIA.

I guess we will find out soon enough.
 
I've been trying to avoid posting but hey, I'm bored at work and procrastinating so here goes :D

I think if a team, any team, is found to be exceeding the budget cap by a decent amount (I'd argue 5% is 'too high' a limit really) then the punishment surely has to be extremely harsh. If in a hypothetical scenario a team overspends by say $20 million and then gets fined $50k then next year all the big teams will overspend by at least $20 million because it's worth it and the budget cap is dead. So the punishment has to be enough that overspending isn't a viable option.

But obviously we don't know yet if any team did overspend so it's all moot until that info is released...

I was kinda thinking similar with the engine limits/penalties, it's been a joke at a couple of races now with so many drivers at the back of the grid and the grid taking 2+ hours after qualifying to be set, and even then it's clearly not a harsh punishment for the team really hence why they keep doing it (to an extent, 3 engines for 22 races or whatever is a bit limited). If anything to preserve both the 'spectacle' and also punish the teams why not keep the grid as is but fine and/or deduct points from the teams, perhaps even harshly like say the 1st-3rd components are $25k, 4th is $50k and 50 points deducted from the constructors championship, 5th is $100k and 100 points etc etc, they'd soon stop :p
 
iamtheoneneo said:
Sure. There are some interesting messages coming out from RB about how nobody but the FIA should know the outcome of this and RB don't even know. So why is Toto talking as if he knows everything?
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I'm not going to go over everything Toto has said (especially given I've hardly been watching this week/end) but as far as I've seen he's not mentioned any other teams. His strongest words were when asked about the severity of it e.g. if it was usual F1 politics or if it was a big deal. He simply replied it was a really big deal and explained how Mercedes had to cut £10s of millions, made 40 people redundant etc, not running the parts they wanted etc. That's a fair comment, obviously if he thinks RB have broken the budget cap he'll be pushing for a harsh punishment, and getting the world on-side is just usual F1 politics as we already know it.

When will we hear anything new about all this, anyway? :confused:
 
Scam said:
I'm not going to go over everything Toto has said (especially given I've hardly been watching this week/end) but as far as I've seen he's not mentioned any other teams. His strongest words were when asked about the severity of it e.g. if it was usual F1 politics or if it was a big deal. He simply replied it was a really big deal and explained how Mercedes had to cut £10s of millions, made 40 people redundant etc, not running the parts they wanted etc. That's a fair comment, obviously if he thinks RB have broken the budget cap he'll be pushing for a harsh punishment, and getting the world on-side is just usual F1 politics as we already know it.

When will we hear anything new about all this, anyway? :confused:
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I think he did mention RB specifically, said it was an 'open secret', but that was all after the news articles and rumours came out so dunno, wouldn't be surprised if some of that is just to annoy Horner/Marko, and obviously they say things at times to wind up Wolff as well.

Wednesday I think is the date the FIA will give the certificates to the teams, no idea if that'll be public/how quickly any overspend will come to light...
 
iamtheoneneo said:
Sure. There are some interesting messages coming out from RB about how nobody but the FIA should know the outcome of this and RB don't even know. So why is Toto talking as if he knows everything? The initial reports from the Italian media (coincidence maybe?) did nothing to substantiate their claims..

so in essence this is a lot of drama over absolutely nothing that has been proven to date. RB might have a point that its a story to detract away from the failures of other teams, it may also be that RB did mess up and will face judgement as determined by the FIA.

I guess we will find out soon enough.
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Most of the media stuff I'm reading is just pure click bait. But I agree with Horner, none of this should be released into the public domain anyway and those who are making these claims, if they're either members of the FIA or any F1 teams, should at least have a charge thrown at them of bringing the sport into disrepute. In this matter there should be no such thing as a open secret.
 
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cuke2u said:
Most of the media stuff I'm reading is just pure click bait. But I agree with Horner, none of this should be released into the public domain anyway and those who are making these claims, if they're either members of the FIA or any F1 teams, should at least have a charge thrown at them of bringing the sport into disrepute. In this matter there should be no thing as a open secret.
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I do agree with that actually.
 
Scam said:
By “both” I take it you mean the constructors and drivers for 2022? Or everything for 2021 and 2022? :p If the latter there is grounds for that considering who knows if their overspend went into the 21 or 22 car.

Honestly I say this in completely, undeniably biased terms, but I think the FIA have a great opportunity to put 2021 right, by disqualifying RB from everything this year. Max doesnt win it, RB can feel what it’s like to have a championship stolen from them, and it’s done without revisiting 2021 or pandering to the anti-Lewis trolls by handing him something (eg 2021) on a plate. It makes it less about Lewis versus Max, more about fairness.
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Constructors and drivers for 21, 22, and potentially 23 if it also affects that as Toto suggested. If they overspent, disqualifying RB from this year only would not put 2021 right, it would be even worse because they'd be getting away with the overspend in 2021 in addition to Masi's rule breaking.
 
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I am not really bothered about the result of what will happen but Formula 1 is dying a slow and horrible death. It is genuinely sad the off field stuff that happens within F1 is more entertaining than the racing itself.
 
cuke2u said:
But I agree with Horner, none of this should be released into the public domain anyway and those who are making these claims, if they're either members of the FIA or any F1 teams, should at least have a charge thrown at them of bringing the sport into disrepute. In this matter there should be no such thing as a open secret.
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What absolute rubbish. When you're accused of breaking the rules, 'Who told you?' isn't a defence.
 
cuke2u said:
Most of the media stuff I'm reading is just pure click bait. But I agree with Horner, none of this should be released into the public domain anyway and those who are making these claims, if they're either members of the FIA or any F1 teams, should at least have a charge thrown at them of bringing the sport into disrepute. In this matter there should be no such thing as an open secret.
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Wow, take them redbull blinkers off for a minute will you
 
DeliciousStorage said:
If they overspent, disqualifying RB from this year only would not put 2021 right, it would be even worse because they'd be getting away with the overspend in 2021 in addition to Masi's rule breaking.
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That's very true actually.
GravyMonster said:
What absolute rubbish. When you're accused of breaking the rules, 'Who told you?' isn't a defence.
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Unless it turns out to be nothing more than rumours in which case Horner (actually :eek: ) has a point. It's damaging to their team's image (lolwut :p). But RB have form when it comes to cheating so I'm sure it's all true.
 
Scam said:
That's very true actually.

Unless it turns out to be nothing more than rumours in which case Horner (actually :eek: ) has a point. It's damaging to their team's image (lolwut :p). But RB have form when it comes to cheating so I'm sure it's all true.
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I think horners response tells you everything you need to know TBH

so it’s possible both Max’s championships will be tainted 2021 “human error champion” and 2022 “cost cap champion”
 
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woppy101 said:
I think horners response tells you everything you need to know TBH

so it’s possible both Max’s championships will be tainted 2021 “human error champion” and 2022 “cost cap champion”
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Don't tell that to his dad or he will shatter your jaw and fracture your eye socket.
 
Scam said:
Unless it turns out to be nothing more than rumours in which case Horner (actually :eek: ) has a point. It's damaging to their team's image (lolwut :p). But RB have form when it comes to cheating so I'm sure it's all true.
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I completely agree - but that's my point. His first response when asked about this was to enquire who found out and where they got the information, and to point fingers at the FIA and Mercedes. Only later did he then attempt to defend the team and question the legitimacy of the claim.
 
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GravyMonster said:
I completely agree - but that's my point. His first response when asked about this was to enquire who found out and where they got the information, and to point fingers at the FIA and Mercedes. Only later did he then attempt to defend the team and question the legitimacy of the claim.
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Oh yeah, typical guilty conscience but I expect nothing less from that crowd!
 
iamtheoneneo said:
Sure. There are some interesting messages coming out from RB about how nobody but the FIA should know the outcome of this and RB don't even know. So why is Toto talking as if he knows everything? The initial reports from the Italian media (coincidence maybe?) did nothing to substantiate their claims..

so in essence this is a lot of drama over absolutely nothing that has been proven to date. RB might have a point that its a story to detract away from the failures of other teams, it may also be that RB did mess up and will face judgement as determined by the FIA.

I guess we will find out soon enough.
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All these people have friends in the right places who will leak things to them.

If Red Bull are guilty you can discount anything they say about whether they know or not. They are going to play dumb obviously.
 
The Telegraph reporting that Red Bull are expected to escape a sporting penalty over the 2021 budget cap, with the team now understood to be guilty of a 'procedural' breach at most.
Apparantly Williams are also guilty of a "procedural breach"

"It is understood Red Bull may not be found to be in breach at all. Or if they are it is thought most likely to be a procedural breach akin to rivals Williams."

Link here but its behind a paywall I think: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula...d-bull-set-avoid-major-penalty-f1-budget-cap/
 
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