Motorsport Off Topic Thread

KiNgPiN83 said:
RB doing a bit of damage limitation and blaming the free lunches..

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1014387/1/red-bull-overspend-due-free-staff-lunch-every-day

Obviously sounds better than we spent that 0-whatever million on a lovely new floor and some other aero bits. :o
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I don’t buy this argument. Surely they would’ve spent less on car development had they not overspent on catering??

i.e. oh ****, we spent too much on cucumber sandwiches, we need to slash the development budget by a few million….
 
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visibleman said:
Given FIA's current standings, i think most folk are already prepared for the limp-wristed punishment. Where it'll be interesting, is what they do about the current budget cap regs as that will determine if other teams do the same next year.
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The problem is that without knowing the exact circumstances, it’s hard to weigh the penalty. Obviously anything over is an issue, but if it was under £1m I could understand a weak penalty.

The hardcore Merc and Ferrari fans will throw toys regardles.
 
mjt said:
I don’t buy this argument. Surely they would’ve spent less on car development had they not overspent on catering??

i.e. oh ****, we spent too much on cucumber sandwiches, we need to slash the development budget by a few million….
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They apparently provide a proper lunch to all employees at MK, so that’s easily a couple million over a year. Not saying it’s the real reason but that can factor in vs other companies who don’t provide that benefit.
 
KiNgPiN83 said:
RB doing a bit of damage limitation and blaming the free lunches..

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1014387/1/red-bull-overspend-due-free-staff-lunch-every-day

Obviously sounds better than we spent that 0-whatever million on a lovely new floor and some other aero bits. :o
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Those free meals must have been full of (carbon) fibre to give the workers extra energy when covering the 'illness' of other workers...

I'm sorry but that is so obviously a load of ****..... funny how the leaks that were so 'unlikely' and strangely include amounts that even the FIA didn't give out, are so easily found by a Dutch newspaper :o

There's a thing called time in lieu that could have been used for covering for illness so they didn't overspend on 'staffing costs'... hmm I wonder what department had 'illness' (accounting...) and what department came in for cover... the aero or manufacturing department perhaps...

I wouldn't be shocked to find out that they were over the $7million and that $1-2million is what brought them into 'minor' overspend.
 
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Mesai said:
They apparently provide a proper lunch to all employees at MK, so that’s easily a couple million over a year. Not saying it’s the real reason but that can factor in vs other companies who don’t provide that benefit.
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I’m no CFO but I even know that would be under pretty standard “running costs” among with rent and electricity for your building. IE nothing to do with your fluctuating spend on R&D, aero time etc
 
Mesai said:
....but if it was under £1m I could understand a weak penalty.
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Better idea, perhaps just don't go over the budget cap like how a lot of the other teams manage not to do.
If they've got a competency issue in the department that is literally there to prevent this happening, then perhaps they need to do a spot of hiring and firing - it'll save themselves from ******** the bed and blaming it on sandwiches in the future.
 
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Scam said:
I’m no CFO but I even know that would be under pretty standard “running costs” among with rent and electricity for your building. IE nothing to do with your fluctuating spend on R&D, aero time etc
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Different companies have different running costs. I agree that salaries should be in the cap, but daily lunch or other workplace benefits shouldn’t be included as it’ll differ from place to place.
visibleman said:
Better idea, perhaps just don't go over the budget cap like how a lot of the other teams manage not to do.
If they've got a competency issue in the department that is literally there to prevent this happening, then perhaps they need to do a spot of hiring and firing - it'll save themselves from ******** the bed and blaming it on sandwiches in the future.
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100% if management missed the boat on it then they should be axed. Every team, who can afford it, will run as close to the cap as possible and that requires proper management.

The penalties are pretty severe so I can’t imagine they did it intentionally. I’d love to know how much they were over.
 
KiNgPiN83 said:
RB doing a bit of damage limitation and blaming the free lunches..
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Easy to act like this is nothing, but it's not: that's part of the package they're offering to their staff. Not really any different from other forms of staff pay: which is an area in which teams compete to attract and retain the best. The cap isn't just about the cost of carbon fibre, it's also - perhaps even mostly - about the people who are designing and shaping that carbon fibre.

As for covering illness, it's just daft to think that's deserving of being separate and special, especially compared to other teams.

If it is really $1-2 million then that is deserving of a significant response, a fine is simply not enough. You need to hurt them in a sporting way. Perhaps something like: teduce the cap for 2023 by $5m, and cut their wind tunnel time with immediate effect, as well as a hefty fine. But I don't think that it would justify points deductions for 2021.
 
Mr Jack said:
Easy to act like this is nothing, but it's not: that's part of the package they're offering to their staff. Not really any different from other forms of staff pay: which is an area in which teams compete to attract and retain the best. The cap isn't just about the cost of carbon fibre, it's also - perhaps even mostly - about the people who are designing and shaping that carbon fibre.

As for covering illness, it's just daft to think that's deserving of being separate and special, especially compared to other teams.

If it is really $1-2 million then that is deserving of a significant response, a fine is simply not enough. You need to hurt them in a sporting way. Perhaps something like: teduce the cap for 2023 by $5m, and cut their wind tunnel time with immediate effect, as well as a hefty fine. But I don't think that it would justify points deductions for 2021.
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I know what you are saying. Its just a bit cynical to put forward the food for staff expense above everything else involved in making a car faster... Plus most of the other teams seemingly managed to feed their staff and not go over the cap? I guess Aston Martin will be pushing the AM branded caviar lunches forward as the reason they went over next..
 
413x said:
This is such a mess. Really damaging for f1
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I don't know, I think at this stage anyone still watching doesn't really care that much and honestly, the drama and politics are as much part of the sport as the racing. Its fundamentally 98% "who build the best car" and 2% "who has the best driver". Unless you are Ferrari of course. Then its 45% car, 2% driver and 53% "can the team avoid completely cocking up every race in new and inventive ways".

Formula one has only been interesting in recent times due to the squabbling, animosity and up to a point, Max Verstappen driving it like he stole it.
 
fez said:
I don't know, I think at this stage anyone still watching doesn't really care that much and honestly, the drama and politics are as much part of the sport as the racing. Its fundamentally 98% "who build the best car" and 2% "who has the best driver". Unless you are Ferrari of course. Then its 45% car, 2% driver and 53% "can the team avoid completely cocking up every race in new and inventive ways".

Formula one has only been interesting in recent times due to the squabbling, animosity and up to a point, Max Verstappen driving it like he stole it.
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Its true. I certainly don't regard it as a sport. And I only watch it because I always have.

It's an hour or so of entertainment every couple of weeks. I know the team I support will never win. I know there are a lot of fudges to improve the spectacle and I'd rather these than not.

Its all a bit of a farce, but I still watch! :D
 
So what's next? We know RB cheated, is there a timeline for when the penalties are announced or are the FIA going to wait until they think we've all forgotten about it and sweep a tiny fine under the carpet?
 
Mesai said:
The penalties are pretty severe so I can’t imagine they did it intentionally.
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But this is a billion dollar company, they know the deal with the financial regs so i'm not convinced there's really an excuse. And it doesn't really matter if the overspend was on catering or loo rolls, it's still £X amount extra in the business which arguably allowed additional funding elsewhere.

The FIA does hold a lot of the responsibility though, with finance the fear of god should be instilled into the teams with severe consequences from the get-go, rather than wishy-washiness that allows room for teams to flex the rules.

Things like this almost makes you want Bernie back :cry:
 
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