Kwasi Kwarteng has been sacked..

[Deleted User 298457]

Not really, you could have just said no BBL's for businesses not running for a year, so at least they had a set of accounts to give to back up the amount of the claim since it based on % of turnover. Sure, some new businesses would have missed out and maybe failed (but plenty of people fell through the furlough cracks too, nothing was done to help them) but it would have stopped all the people immediately registering companys and applying for the full amount then disappearing into the wind, and that happened a lot. Or applying for far more than they were due and then just declaring the company bankrupt.

It's a balance, and there was none to protect against fraud.

No doubt, but I highly doubt Tom, Dick and Harry setting up dodgy firms or leveraging dormant firms to claim BBLs were a priority for Torys to line the pockets of lol.

Not sure what is even being criticised anymore, y'all just frothing about a specific issue long in the past that probably costs us a fiver in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Tombstone]

It is all a bit spilled milk now isn't it. The world was ending, resources are scarce, decisions needed to be made quick. Guess what happens in those scenarios?

Usually a montage and then Hannibal comes up with a plan and before you know it everything has come together

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Usually a montage and then Hannibal comes up with a plan and before you know it everything has come together

Literally zero deaths to boot. (apart from the finale?)

 

[Doobedoo]

It is all a bit spilled milk now isn't it. The world was ending, resources are scarce, decisions needed to be made quick. Guess what happens in those scenarios?

Rich people get richer?

 

[Freakbro]

No doubt, but I highly doubt Tom, Dick and Harry setting up dodgy firms or leveraging dormant firms to claim BBLs were a priority for Torys to line the pockets of lol.

Not sure what is even being criticised anymore, y'all just frothing about a specific issue long in the past that probably costs us a fiver in the grand scheme of things.

Hold on, you say to someone lets see what you could have come up with that's better, I calmly reply just pointing out some simple checks and balances that would have been better and you try to hand wave it away and accuse people of "frothing"

There were simple things that could have been implemented that would have still provided a sufficient level of support and reduced fraud. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your argument that it couldn't have been done any better

Latest estimate is 7.5% of all BBL was fraud, so a little more than a fiver lol

 

[Murphy]

It is all a bit spilled milk now isn't it. The world was ending, resources are scarce, decisions needed to be made quick. Guess what happens in those scenarios?

You'd sort of expect there to be plans in place for such eventualities, plenty of companies I've worked for have disaster plans (off site backups, diesel generators, critical infrastructure not allowed on lower floors, etc, etc).

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Rich people get richer?

And poor scrotes with dodgy limited companies in all of their family members names to avoid the £90k or whatever it is VAT limit get significantly richer.

I don't doubt 1% of rich got even richer, but the people who got significantly better off due to BBL fraud was dodgy sole traders and small firms.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

You'd sort of expect there to be plans in place for such eventualities, plenty of companies I've worked for have disaster plans (off site backups, diesel generators, critical infrastructure not allowed on lower floors, etc, etc).

Refer to the bit about "scarce resources". Very few people want a career planning for something that will probably never happen.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Hold on, you say to someone lets see what you could have come up with that's better, I calmly reply just pointing out some simple checks and balances that would have been better and you try to hand wave it away and accuse people of "frothing"

There were simple things that could have been implemented that would have still provided a sufficient level of support and reduced fraud. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your argument that it couldn't have been done any better

Latest estimate is 7.5% of all BBL was fraud, so a little more than a fiver lol

What simple things could be meaningfully applied with limited resource, in a timely way? Government can't even agree their own IR35 rules.

And, to be clear, the mouth frother was this lad who couldn't control his "anger":

Sure no problem... Pay me what the people in power who make these decisions are being paid and I'll come up with something.

Until then, your smart **** comments just make you look like a dismissive fool.

I do not have an entire team of experts advising me, nor access to some of the most skilled minds in their respective professions to advise me on policy.

The Tories DID.

 

[Doobedoo]

And poor scrotes with dodgy limited companies in all of their family members names to avoid the £90k or whatever it is VAT limit get significantly richer.

I don't doubt 1% of rich got even richer, but the people who got significantly better off due to BBL fraud was dodgy sole traders and small firms.

Because it was easy for them to do so.

 

[wesimmo]

Track and trace was well intentioned but was never going to work in a western country so yes that turned out to be a waste in (captain) hindsight.

Impressive how, in one sentence, you've gone from 'was never going to work' to it being hindsight that it didnt work.

 

[Freakbro]

What simple things could be meaningfully applied with limited resource, in a timely way?

I said, the simplist would have been not allowing a company to apply if they hadn't been incorporated (or self employed) for at least a year. That would have stopped people just registering Ltd companys and getting £50k.

Sure it wouldn't have taken too much either to then match their application (via Co. reg No or NI Number) to their last submitted turnover figure and calculating the level of BBL they were entitled to, rather than people saying their turnover was X and claiming the full £50k. They managed to do that with the SEISS, they calculated it based on your last few years submissions of Self Assessment

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Because it was easy for them to do so.

Ah yes I forgot the system must pander to the Neanderthals that think the world owes them a favour.

 

[Murphy]

Refer to the bit about "scarce resources". Very few people want a career planning for something that will probably never happen.

Planning for something that will probably never happen is literally the job description for emergency & disaster planning consultants and companies offering those services. If companies do it for things that may never happen (I've even seen plans for what the procedures are for an earth quake, in the UK) then it's probably a good idea for our government to draw up plans of what to do if X disaster happens.

 

[n111ck]

Impressive how, in one sentence, you've gone from 'was never going to work' to it being hindsight that it didnt work.

They had to try though or imagine the outcry..

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Planning for something that will probably never happen is literally the job description for emergency & disaster planning consultants and companies offering those services. If companies do it for things that may never happen (I've even seen plans for what the procedures are for an earth quake, in the UK) then it's probably a good idea for our government to draw up plans of what to do if X disaster happens.

 

[Murphy]

Or just having the wherewithal to plan for emergencies and disasters, if you're not expecting that from the people who govern over you then I'm really not sure what you think their job is because me personally i expect them to think of the unthinkable and plan for it so, you know, people don't die, lives don't get ruined, or we actually have an army to defend ourselves if we get invaded or something.

You know, being proactive rather than reactive. You must have a very low opinion of the UK if you think we can't plan for such eventualities.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Or just having the wherewithal to plan for emergencies and disasters, if you're not expecting that from the people who govern over you then I'm really not sure what you think their job is because me personally i expect them to think of the unthinkable and plan for it so, you know, people don't die, lives don't get ruined, or we actually have an army to defend ourselves if we get invaded or something.

You know, being proactive rather than reactive.

Are you ignoring the bit where there is/was a pandemic plan? But proof is in the pudding and plans are often not worth the paper they are written on when reality bites?

 

[Murphy]

That plan included what to do if a government mandated lockdown prevented people from working, did it?

Also if you think plans are often not worth the paper they are written on when reality bites that just goes to show how inept the planning was, it doesn't exonerate anyone, it's just proves they're even more guilty of abandoning their post.

 

[GreatAuk]

Planning for a pandemic should have included furlough planning, and you don't have to be captain hindsight to see that. A pandemic was one of the greatest risks to the country, and the planning to prepare for it was evidently pretty poor. Even if they hadn't done any planning before 2020 they had a few months to get something better together between it being declared an emergency and UK lockdown starting.

And then don't forget, furlough wasn't a one-month affair after which things went pack to normal. The furlough scheme went on for years. They could have improved it at some point after they started it.