London ULEZ expansion plan to go ahead

UberTiger said:
I mean, I just checked and my mums 18 year old new style mini and my 10 year old GT86 are compliant, surprisingly, so it must be a pretty low bar to get a compliant car these days.
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Petrol yes. Most cars from the past 20 years will be fine but diesel that the vast majority of people will have you need something Euro 6 which is less than 8 years old.
 
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adam cool dude said:
Just to get back on topic. It would be 100% better to encourage people to keep their old cars instead of forcing everyone to buy new cars but then we need to get people spending all their hoarded cash during a recession. The emissions impact of people just chucking away perfectly useable cars and replacing them with new must surely be worse.
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100% disagree on this point. The issue in London, as has already been highlighted, more than once, is local air quality. It’s horrendous.

No one has to throw away the old cars and we are only talking about old diesels at this point as well. They can be sold back into the trade and be used elsewhere.

Even if they were all replaced with brand new cars (which they won’t) local air quality will dramatically improve. We are not talking about total cO2 emissions, we are talking about highly damaging particulates and things like NOX being spewed out of an exa use a few feet away fron your kids face.
 
seems the existing ULEZ had produced some small mean 3% reduction in Nox/No2 .. and some sites started now increased or returned to pre-ulez levels ..
slower traffic flow being one reason. ... stupid sadiq barking up wrong tree.

Has the ultra low emission zone in London improved air quality?​


There are three monitoring sites that showed a significant increase (at the 10% level) in roadside concentrations of either NOx (site CT6) or NO2 (sites HV3 and WA8). However, since increases in both NOx and NO2 were not observed at any sites, the results imply that the change in concentrations of NOx and NO2 were highly site-specific and could have been influenced by atmospheric chemistry, vehicle flows, changes in vehicle fleet (i.e. ULEZ compliance) and changes in traffic speeds, which affect vehicle NOx emissions factors and the fraction of NOx emitted as NO2
....
Specifically, the highest reduction in kerbside NO2 concentrations (13%) was observed at the only site within the ULEZ; the highest reduction in kerbside NOx concentrations (7%) was at a site that is outside the zone yet next to its boundary. However, significant concurrent decreases in both NO2 and NOx concentrations were not observed at either of these sites. We also observe a diminishing improvement in air pollution at some locations. For example, at site WM6 within the ULEZ, the normalised concentrations of NO2 and NOx both started to increase in July 2019 after an initial reduction, and by September 2019, their levels reached a plateau where NOx had returned to the pre-ULEZ levels while NO2 remained lower than pre-ULEZ (see SI section S14). For NO2 and NOx , this 'rebound' also occurred for NO2 at a roadside site within the ULEZ, but not at any other roadside sites within the ULEZ nor kerbside sites close to the ULEZ.
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They shut some roads around where I live over lockdown and never re-opened them, now it's pretty much pointless trying to drive anywhere on a saturday as every single road is a god damn parking lot. It's unbelievable, no wonder the levels are still going up.
 
UberTiger said:
They shut some roads around where I live over lockdown and never re-opened them, now it's pretty much pointless trying to drive anywhere on a saturday as every single road is a god damn parking lot. It's unbelievable, no wonder the levels are still going up.
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Sheffield Council did the same. One road had about 15 bus routes going down it prior to it being closed and those routes were uses by elderly/disabled to get them into the heart of the city. Businesses on that road have reported upto 80% loss in footfall since the closure with some closed already and the rest looking likely. Council told everyone the closure was temporary due to Covid....

The council have also blocked off several roads recently around the edge of the new CAZ which will force traffic into the zone rather than allowing it to skirt around the edge. Yet they tell us it's not about revenue generation....
 
UberTiger said:
They shut some roads around where I live over lockdown and never re-opened them, now it's pretty much pointless trying to drive anywhere on a saturday as every single road is a god damn parking lot. It's unbelievable, no wonder the levels are still going up.
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I grew up in London and drove a car and motorcycle, moved away from London, mmm, maybe 15 odd years ago. I am convinced that every time I go to visit the traffic is worse and worse. I guess when I lived there, I got used to getting to certain places in a certain amount of time, it's how I remember it being. When I go there now and try and drive around it's horrendous.

Public transport in London is good though, you don't realise until you move away.
 
CapitalOne said:
Come on it’s not trash. You haven’t lived it but I understand the cynicism. In my experience most people who hate London have never lived inside the M25. I wasn’t born here either.
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If you enjoy the sardine life... Good stuff.

I've visited London once in my 33yrs. I'll never go back by choice.

Absolutely horrible place.

The song from Sweeny Todd comes to mind.

Great big pit, full of ****, it's London
 
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CapitalOne said:
Come on it’s not trash. You haven’t lived it but I understand the cynicism. In my experience most people who hate London have never lived inside the M25. I wasn’t born here either.
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born and lived in London for decades.. finally escaped to the countryside, i can confirm living in London is trash.
 
Won't this require the purchase and installation of hundreds of cameras? That won't be cheap?
 
jpaul said:
seems the existing ULEZ had produced some small mean 3% reduction in Nox/No2 .. and some sites started now increased or returned to pre-ulez levels ..
slower traffic flow being one reason. ... stupid sadiq barking up wrong tree.

Has the ultra low emission zone in London improved air quality?​

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Exactly two euro 6 diesels is still going to be worse than one Euro 5. Population going up isn't going to be solved by Ulez. They need to start banning cars full stop. It is a bit of a lost cause really as London was lost ages ago.

In fact the only way to really improve London air quality is to focus on the North and present viable job alternatives for people that work there but the government will never do that.
 
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Well I am sure it’s coming to an urban environment near you all too. Enjoying the love for the capital too. The economic engine of the UK thanks you :D
 
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CapitalOne said:
Is that alone why you hate London?
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Taking 1 hour to go 15 miles is another, (It took me 90 minutes to go from bow to wembley the other day and that was a Sunday!) the lack of green is another, to live the same lifestyle financially I would need to have an extra 80k+ on my wage. Even if I did have that I would still have to stick up with the dirt and filth everywhere. Why trade that for the countryside where I am still within 90 mins of airports and other major cities?

I could go on for hours. There is a reason rich Londoners do not live inside the 25. Even the queen hated it and she had the best residence in London!
 
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Public transport in much of greater London is no better than elsewhere in the country, especially so if you're going between boroughs and not into central London.
I really feel for the many low/middle earners who don't have the money for a new EV & are reliant on their older car. They are getting completely screwed over, & with very little notice.
 
adam cool dude said:
I could go on for hours. There is a reason rich Londoners do not live inside the 25. Even the queen hated it and she had the best residence in London!
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That’s commuters not rich Londoners :D people often move out to get a bigger house for less money. The locals tend to hate that though unless it’s commuter belt which would unlikely be true countryside.

There is lots of green space, but if you’re used to the A13 journey then I can understand it looks a bit grim.

Either way part of the ULEZ announcement included more buses in the zone so there has been some thought to what it might do.
 
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