Alec Baldwin fatally shoots woman with prop gun on movie set

ubersonic said:
A producer, there were six producers working on the film including Baldwin, whose involvement was essentially just chatting with the other producers about the film (It's normal for big actors to be given producer credits on films without doing many actual production duties).
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That's not really true, he wasn't just one of 6 it's literally his company producing the movie, he's the big boss guy not just an actor with a producer credit.

Blueball said:
He is an actor not a firearms expert. He probably doesn't even know what NSPs are!
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And that is part of the problem, someone handling a fiream ought to be trained to handle it.

Would it be fine if an actor ran someone over because a car they didn't realise a car they'd been revving for a scene was in gear, they don't have a driving licence and they're just an actor not a car expert, the AD who opened the car door for them told them to push the peddle on the left...

I mean that's basically what people are saying with this not-a-gun-expert thing, it doesn't really take any more expertise than checking a car isn't in gear yet people are treating guns as some uber-technical black box that only people with the job title armourer could possibly be able to understand and check.
 
SpellowHouse said:
They have charged the armourer.
It is very interesting that they decided to charge Baldwin. To be found guilty they have to prove some negligence. Say he pointed the gun without reason, fired the gun without reason.... there must be something we don't know about this case.
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There are at least 2 (that I know of) videos from the scene (one from the camera of a responding police officer), footage of the shooting itself, some video from a few hours before the shooting or possibly a day or two before floating around and the first police interview with the armourer. It does not paint a good picture for those in production or management positions. Several things in the videos are at odds with what people are talking about in this thread.
 
gingergundog said:
Devils advocate but maybe Alec Baldwin is trained as much as can be with regard to being an actor and he expects a armourer to give him the correct equipment
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Nah - it isn't rocket science to learn the basics of firearms handling and carry it out - I don't know much to more than speculate but I wonder if Alec Baldwin being so anti-firearms meant he is the type who'd obstinately refuse to learn anything about them out of misguided "principle".
 
Rroff said:
Nah - it isn't rocket science to learn the basics of firearms handling and carry it out - I don't know much to more than speculate but I wonder if Alec Baldwin being so anti-firearms meant he is the type who'd obstinately refuse to learn anything about them out of misguided "p
Rroff said:
Nah - it isn't rocket science to learn the basics of firearms handling and carry it out - I don't know much to more than speculate but I wonder if Alec Baldwin being so anti-firearms meant he is the type who'd obstinately refuse to learn anything about them out of misguided "principle".
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****
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Rroff said:
Nah - it isn't rocket science to learn the basics of firearms handling and carry it out - I don't know much to more than speculate but I wonder if Alec Baldwin being so anti-firearms meant he is the type who'd obstinately refuse to learn anything about them out of misguided "principle".
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Maybe I'm naïve but I would expect a firearms expert to be an expert with firearms and an actor to be be guided by that, bear in mind I'm pretty ****** rite about now
 
gingergundog said:
Maybe I'm naïve but I would expect a firearms expert to be an expert with firearms and an actor to be be guided by that, bear in mind I'm pretty ****** rite about now
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Don't really get your point - you don't need to be an expert in firearms to master the basics of good firearms handling - which appears to have been largely absent on the set.
 
Why do people have such a problem with personal responsibility? If I hand you a gun and say it's unloaded, and then you point it at someone's head and it goes off, you are partially responsible for not ensuring the gun is in fact not loaded.
 
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Roar87 said:
Why do people have such a problem with personal responsibility? If I hand you a gun and say it's unloaded, and then you point it at someone's head and it goes off, you are partially responsible for not ensuring the gun is in fact not loaded.
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I deal with it all the time at work, so I don't have much tolerance for it, generally more in relation to people blocking fire doors and the like rather than firearms though :s

Personally, having watched a good bit of the footage which has been released, think more people should have been prosecuted than just those 2.
 
gingergundog said:
Devils advocate but maybe Alec Baldwin is trained as much as can be with regard to being an actor and he expects a armourer to give him the correct equipment
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The problem is there is most likely no standard operating procedure for handling guns in the movie industry and has not been risk assessed at all more than likely. If there was something like this it wouldn't happen.

I'm totally guessing here but the movie industry is most likely hardly regulated at all when it comes to production H&S.

This is why reforms need to be had as it happens far too often from what I have seen going back decades but people like Alec Baldwin line their pockets with profits at the expense of people's safety.
 
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According to the DM :s the filing includes that on Alec Baldwin:

"They also say he did not undergo proper gun safety training, and that he was talking to his family on his cell phone when he was meant to have been learning how to handle the weapon."
 
The question now is what sort of sentence will he get if any at all.

If there really is justice in the world it will be jail time and plenty of it.
If not then he'll probably get a slap on the wrist, a big fine and on with the show.
 
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MadMossy said:
The question now is what sort of sentence will he get if any at all.

If there really is justice in the world it will be jail time and plenty of it.
If not then he'll probably get a slap on the wrist, a big fine and on with the show.
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I suspect a big fine and slap on the wrist, probably some kind of suspended sentence with conditions that he doesn't do certain things (business role wise) in the movie industry for a set period of time.
 
MadMossy said:
The question now is what sort of sentence will he get if any at all.

If there really is justice in the world it will be jail time and plenty of it.
If not then he'll probably get a slap on the wrist, a big fine and on with the show.
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IF he's found guilty...

What's the lowest penalty for involuntary manslaughter?
Guideline Penalties. The base offense level for criminally negligent involuntary manslaughter is 10. The guideline range at Criminal History Category I without acceptance of responsibility is 6-12 months imprisonment (with acceptance of responsibility, 0-6 months).

Goes all the way up to 12 years I think. So, if he accepts guilt (he hasn't yet...) he could avoid jail time, but otherwise...

§2A1.3 VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER

§2A1.3 VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER1. Statutory Penalties. The statutory maximum for voluntary manslaughter is 10 years. Should the statutory maximum be raised, lowered, or is it appropriate? If it should be changed, what should it be changed to? The statutory maximums for relevant Chapter 2A offenses...
www.ussc.gov www.ussc.gov
 
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Uther said:
IF he's found guilty...

What's the lowest penalty for involuntary manslaughter?
Guideline Penalties. The base offense level for criminally negligent involuntary manslaughter is 10. The guideline range at Criminal History Category I without acceptance of responsibility is 6-12 months imprisonment (with acceptance of responsibility, 0-6 months).

Goes all the way up to 12 years I think. So, if he accepts guilt (he hasn't yet...) he could avoid jail time, but otherwise...

§2A1.3 VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER

§2A1.3 VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER1. Statutory Penalties. The statutory maximum for voluntary manslaughter is 10 years. Should the statutory maximum be raised, lowered, or is it appropriate? If it should be changed, what should it be changed to? The statutory maximums for relevant Chapter 2A offenses...
www.ussc.gov www.ussc.gov
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Alec Baldwin might be snookering himself here with Halls taking a plea deal, Gutierrez-Reed I suspect will likely take some kind of deal, he'll end up at the mercy of the jury.
 
Rroff said:
Alec Baldwin might be snookering himself here with Halls taking a plea deal, Gutierrez-Reed I suspect will likely take some kind of deal, he'll end up at the mercy of the jury.
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Yep, and he comes across as an arrogant **** so that won't help. Unless the jury is as star struck as the officers on the scene were.
 
Uther said:
Yep, and he comes across as an arrogant **** so that won't help. Unless the jury is as star struck as the officers on the scene were.
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I was wondering that, would the jury be star struck - they generally tend to be favourable towards big name actors unless they are universally hated - will depend a lot I think on the jury demographics.
 
Rroff said:
According to the DM :s the filing includes that on Alec Baldwin:

"They also say he did not undergo proper gun safety training, and that he was talking to his family on his cell phone when he was meant to have been learning how to handle the weapon."
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He must have handled a gun in at least 10 movies, off the top of my head I can think of a few:

Hunt for Red October
Mission Impossible 5 and 6

It's not like he didn't know.
 
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