COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

n111ck said:
Rather than delve into disaster porn with a loony Corbyn government lets look at what would have happened if we had slightly less deranged Captain Hindsight government (albeit handicapped by the lack of hindsight lol).

- We know Starmer was consistently in favour of longer and harder restrictions which would have been even more damaging to the country will little upside given the impossibility of zero covid in the UK

- We know Starmer would have joined the disastrous EU vaccine scheme with the loss of life that would have caused

- We know Starmer would have imposed an unnecessary omicron lockdown with all the associated harm

- We know Starmer recognises the shadow cabinets lack of experience in running government hence the ill advised appointment of the unethical head of ethics

- We know Starmer would be a puppet of the unions and civil service blob making ending covid resruictiuons virtually impossible and keeping schools etc closed


...to be fair though Starmer wouldn't have spent 5 minutes having happy birthday sung to him by his staff if thats important to you...
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But you made it about Corbyn not Starmer.

What we know is that a Tory said let the bodies pile high and some others went on about herd immunity. I really dont think anyone could have done worse than or even as bad as this Tory bunch.
 
Jokester said:
It's interesting you mention a lot more talk about menopause as I've mentioned this as well - there was a big push at my work end of last year about menopause support. Similarly end of last year we were being told to all start take statins.

The temporal effect is particularly strong with both HRT and births, though the original Sky News report says that the number seeking HRT doubled over 5 years, the time period that they doubled was actually almost all contained in the 18 months from mid 2021. Similarly, births the drop appears very strong in Feb/March 2022 and never recovers (unless people some how knew about the cost of living crisis 9 months before it started?). Births will be very well recorded by the ONS, it's an official requirement to be reported by parents within 28 days(?) - yes there may be a lag of a month or so, but certainly not a couple of years.
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We've had the same sort of thing with menopause at work also. I know a lot of people who made a (what I would say is sensible) decision not to have kids during the pandemic as they didn't know how things would go. If the crap really hit the fan the last thing you want to do is have to care for a kid.
 
n111ck said:
Rather than delve into disaster porn with a loony Corbyn government lets look at what would have happened if we had slightly less deranged Captain Hindsight government (albeit handicapped by the lack of hindsight lol).

- We know Starmer was consistently in favour of longer and harder restrictions which would have been even more damaging to the country will little upside given the impossibility of zero covid in the UK

- We know Starmer would have joined the disastrous EU vaccine scheme with the loss of life that would have caused

- We know Starmer would have imposed an unnecessary omicron lockdown with all the associated harm

- We know Starmer recognises the shadow cabinets lack of experience in running government hence the ill advised appointment of the unethical head of ethics

- We know Starmer would be a puppet of the unions and civil service blob making ending covid resruictiuons virtually impossible and keeping schools etc closed


...to be fair though Starmer wouldn't have spent 5 minutes having happy birthday sung to him by his staff if thats important to you...
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The worst thing if Labour were in power at the time would have been the likes of Boris, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Nadine Dorries etc joining the views of the ERG / CRG and objecting to any sort of public health measures.

Strangely having Boris in a position of power where he was forced to face the consequences of not taking action was probably for the best. If he were in opposition he would have been causing chaos in Parliament and using his press connections to seed distrust in the Labour government.
 
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Dis86 said:
We've had the same sort of thing with menopause at work also. I know a lot of people who made a (what I would say is sensible) decision not to have kids during the pandemic as they didn't know how things would go. If the crap really hit the fan the last thing you want to do is have to care for a kid.
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Yeah, it's odd that it would suddenly explode into the workplaces across the country in the last 3-6 months at a guess. There's even a push now to give menopausal women extra work rights. The government will have no doubt responded to seeing these stats as they are aware that the menopause is one of the biggest reasons for women dropping out of the workplace.
 
I dont know enough about it so not saying with authority either way.... but is it not just as likely - or possibly more likely even - than many of these issues cropping up now are side effects of covid rather than the vaccine?
 
bigmike20vt said:
I dont know enough about it so not saying with authority either way.... but is it not just as likely - or possibly more likely even - than many of these issues cropping up now are side effects of covid rather than the vaccine?
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Doesn't seem likely, the start of the large increase in demand for HRT wasn't until approx 12 months into the pandemic and drop in births approx 24 months later, both of these are a lot closer to the start of vaccination of under 50s (a couple of months for HRT and ~10 months for births). I think there is some research into women who were hospitalised with Covid that found a small effect on fertility but nothing substantial.

Edit:
It would be a fair comment that maybe women delayed seeing a GP about HRT due to the pandemic having had covid in the previous year or so, but the association with births also dropping much later would imply there is definitely more than that going on.

Edit2:
Though saying that, there's no drop off in HRT prescriptions due to lockdown, there is still a steady increase, presumably due to a slowly aging population demographic.
 
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Puzzled said:
The worst thing if Labour were in power at the time would have been the likes of Boris, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Nadine Dorries etc joining the views of the ERG / CRG and objecting to any sort of public health measures.

Strangely having Boris in a position of power where he was forced to face the consequences of not taking action was probably for the best. If he were in opposition he would have been causing chaos in Parliament and using his press connections to seed distrust in the Labour government.
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I hadnt actually thought about that but yes you are right it would have been bedlum if the Tories were in opposition. They would have been at all the anti lockdown marches all the anti vaccine marches. All over the right wing press causing trouble.
 
Tony Edwards said:
But you made it about Corbyn not Starmer.

What we know is that a Tory said let the bodies pile high and some others went on about herd immunity. I really dont think anyone could have done worse than or even as bad as this Tory bunch.
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Corbyn would have been 100 times worse.

If your only retort is unsubstantiated office gossip I assume you dont disagree with my points on Starmer.
 
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n111ck said:
Corbyn would have been 100 times worse.

If your only retort is unsubstantiated office gossip I assume you dont disagree with my points on Starmer.
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Look the difference would have been that grown ups would have been in charge rather than the silly little children that ripped the country off of billions of pounds so their mates could get rich.

They would have taken a different approach hopefully and gone in to lockdown quicker. The rest is just your misunderstanding of politics and governance.

I think Starmer is a tit but I dont think he is stupid.
 
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Puzzled said:
The worst thing if Labour were in power at the time would have been the likes of Boris, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Nadine Dorries etc joining the views of the ERG / CRG and objecting to any sort of public health measures.

Strangely having Boris in a position of power where he was forced to face the consequences of not taking action was probably for the best. If he were in opposition he would have been causing chaos in Parliament and using his press connections to seed distrust in the Labour government.
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The only reason Boris started taking it seriously was the idiot caught it shaking hands with covid patients and it nearly killed him. That alone probably saved thousands of lives.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Look the difference would have been that grown ups would have been in charge rather than the silly little children that ripped the country off of billions of pounds so their mates could get rich.

They would have taken a different approach hopefully and gone in to lockdown quicker. The rest is just your misunderstanding of politics and governance.

I think Starmer is a tit but I dont think he is stupid.
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We know what he would have done from his howling at pmq’s and with hindsight we know he would have been wrong at every step.
 
I see the latest report about the effectness of wearing masks as shown they made hardly any difference.


I'm not really surprised. I was watching a BBC documentary during the time the hospitals were under pressure. There was a scene were a doctor was being shown the effectiveness of this astronaut looking helmet, one of the nurses sprayed in his direction a special scent and the guy in the helmet could still smell it.

I also heard fairly early on via a Chinese youtube guy that was testing the various masks. He was saying the problem with the N95 masks is that they are 95% protective. But covid was in the other 5%. So yes people would have had some protection. But not total protection. The video was removed swiftly after that.

The most effective way to kill / stop covid in the report was the hand washing.
 
BowdonUK said:
I see the latest report about the effectness of wearing masks as shown they made hardly any difference.
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Worth actually reading it - doesn't say what people think/want it to say.

Odorants are approx. 300 times smaller than virus particles.

N95 masks will provide some protection via mechanisms like diffusion, etc. the virus particles aren't alone in the air - but won't provide complete protection - when used appropriately they will significantly reduce your chances of being infected but only to a point - if you spend like 1-2 hours on a train in proximity to infected people you have a non-negligible chance of infection even with N95.

The biggest problem with masks is that people are both clueless as to how to wear them properly and appropriately for a situation and also have no intention of improving their knowledge or experience in that regard unless forced to.

EDIT: Said it before and will say it again though - we had a fairly strict policy on interventions at work for most of the pandemic, implemented from higher up the company by people who seem to know what they were doing, and it worked IMO - if you compare to what was going on generally and other similar companies with more lapse approaches we had a completely different outcome, until those policies were relaxed then it all went to ****.
 
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Tony Edwards said:
Is it any different to the other 'masks dont work' reports?

If not WTF?
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I tell you what amused me at the weekend. I had to go to TIA clinic at the weekend for an MRI and CT scan.
there were signs everywhere to wear a mask and masks were handed out to all those in need.

but what was funny was I would say 50% of those staff wearing a mask were doing the old mouth covered nose exposed method.

if doctors and nurses can't wear a mask properly after 3 years then there really is no help for anyone else.
I didn't mind wearing mine but if people are not gonna do it properly then they may as well save the money on the masks and give it up.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I tell you what amused me at the weekend. I had to go to TIA clinic at the weekend for an MRI and CT scan.
there were signs everywhere to wear a mask and masks were handed out to all those in need.

but what was funny was I would say 50% of those staff wearing a mask were doing the old mouth covered nose exposed method.

if doctors and nurses can't wear a mask properly after 3 years then there really is no help for anyone else.
I didn't mind wearing mine but if people are not gonna do it properly then they may as well save the money on the masks and give it up.
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Problem is those basic 2 and 3 ply/grade-2 medical masks only really work with distancing and crowd mobility. You need N95 level for significant protection in your average medical centre environment assuming people aren't spending too long in close proximity or better if spending prolonged time in close proximity.

Basic masks work, when worn by all parties, for things like supermarket shopping where distancing is observed and people aren't stopping for 10+ minutes to have a natter face to face, etc. etc. they offer little protection if people try to carry on life as normal.
 
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