I'd love them to try. Maybe start with Poland guys? Should be easy.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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if they'd taken Ukraine in 3 days, they would be well on the way to trying, it's not like it's some secret.
You seem fairly confident of that? A lot of these Russians seem to run their mouths and talk a huge amount of dung. Call it propaganda, bravado, bluff, intended for internal consumption, etc.
You think they would directly attack NATO? In such a way that it was obvious that they were starting a war? Unless they are totally deluded they couldn't possibly expect anything other than a humiliating defeat (or worse).
Even had Ukraine crumbled in 3 days, NATO is not Ukraine.
Think it will take awhile to sink in in the West but unless/until the population kick back against it Russia has less and less to lose staying on a war footing and can sustain it a lot longer than many commentators seem to think.
Fair enough if we're just talking about Russia vs Ukraine or other small, non-Nato countries.
But "Eastern Europe" is typically considered the former Soviet-bloc countries now part of NATO. Not sure Russia could sustain any kind of footing, war or otherwise, if they poked NATO in the eye.
There isn't even an argument to cede Eastern Europe to avoid a nuclear war. There would be no reason not to utterly crush Russia if they made an attack against Poland, etc. And if we all get nuked, we all get nuked. That's just how it is.
In every conceivable way, allowing Russia to take NATO territory by force is a worse outcome than just letting the nukes fly. I don't think we'd appease them, at all. We'd push them back and they'd either start a nuclear war or fold and surrender.
Obviously it's not a great outcome, but it's inconceivable that we'd just let Russia take back Eastern Europe, and they know it. So they'd have to be completely off their rocker, and no amount of preparedness on their part would prevent an absolutely Armageddon scenario, at least for them (and probably for us too).
This is where out response to Ukraine comes to play - you don't know Russia if you think a whimper of a response wouldn't have encouraged them to test to see where out resolve really lies.
Under what possible circumstances could anyone logically expect NATO to roll over and play dead?
We're talking about a complete lack of self-preservation instinct from the Russians. Nobody would expect NATO to just cede Eastern Europe. Because it would make zero logical sense from any angle (Trump in office notwithstanding).
There's plenty of people here who STILL think we should just let them have eastern Ukraine, and then all of Ukraine.
Do you really think there aren't people who would start parroting well Poland is full of Nazis and need to be liberated and was Russian land anyway in the west?
we've done this conversation before in this thread, If everything had gone to plan Russia would be knocking on the door right now except with a few million Ukrainians as cannon folder.
Russia is facing a grim future with its current political system. Putler and his cronies are bad for the world, but far worse for Russia.
If NATO had done very little and Ukraine had been steam rolled Russia would almost certainly look to test where NATO resolve actually lay.
Putin must be laughing his little ushanka off his head after today.
Emboldened by the G20's collective lack of spine, Russia starts talking up a wider front. What a slap in the face for Ukrainians.
Shameful.
Unless this is a game of 4D chess, but I doubt it.
Emboldened by the G20's collective lack of spine, Russia starts talking up a wider front. What a slap in the face for Ukrainians.
Shameful.
Unless this is a game of 4D chess, but I doubt it.
I don’t think the Ukraine was ever
going to get rolled over TBH. The war would have just become one of resistance with attacks all over Russia sparking all sorts of unrest and uprisings.
Testing NATO is another thing all together. How hard should NATO spank Vladolf? How much of Russia should become demilitarised? How many states of Russia would vote for independence if Putin went looking to start world war 3?
Wagner etc would have certainly come in to play
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If Russia ends up in the situation they hoped Europe would the karma will be off the chart.
In what way could they have done that without effectively declaring war?
The situation in NATO countries is vastly different to the situation in Ukraine. Good luck cultivating a "rebel uprising" to arm in Poland, etc.
And more direct action would lead inevitably to Russia getting their ass handed to them on a plate.
What I don't understand is people thinking the situation with Ukraine is in any comparable to the cost of aggression against NATO.
e: If they were remotely similar, then Ukraine wouldn't be desperate to join NATO, eh? Ukraine inside NATO is something that Russia is actively losing sleep over.
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How? What could Wagner possibly have done against NATO countries that wouldn't be (a) utterly futile and (b) considered to have been ordered by Russia.
Awesome wasn't it. I think this could work regularly. Throw in some rainbow flags and maybe ask whoever came up with the slogans when Top Gear chaps drove across deep south America land. Giant floating phrases such as "if you can see this you love western decadence!"Best, Tactic, Ever!
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