The Manchester United Club Thread

[adam cool dude]

I'm not sure why you've taken exception to that line from Danny - it might be a bit blunt but I'm not sure anything is untrue. When Sancho was left out of the squad did anybody even notice? It might have raised a few eyebrows amongst Utd fans but I'm not sure many non Utd fans noticed, let alone cared.

This only became a news story post match when ETH made his comments and Sancho reacted to them. I said this at the time and I think it even more so now, ETH's comments were needless. There's lots of negative rumours going around about Sancho and who knows what is true but even if we accept that they're all true, what on earth do Utd gain from ETH outing a player in public? Whether it's football, financial or just the general atmosphere around the club, this has been bad for Utd on every level. Short of Sancho getting a big offer from the middle east and fancying a move there, it's difficult to see a scenario where Sancho moves on without Utd paying him off or subsidising his wages. In January he'll still be sitting on a contract worth circa £45m to him and no club that might want him will be willing to match that.

People did notice. They asked the question. He answered it

This is what he said. It really isn't anything bad. The media have made a massive mountain out of it. He is just speaking facts. He wasn't good enough in training and wasn't selected for the squad. Quite simple really. I am a really blunt person too so maybe that is why I can relate to it. No point fannying about with lies when the truth gets you straight to the point.

 

[BaZ87]

You haven't really answered how he could deal with this going forward if he didn't answer the question. How do you explain multiple absences from the match day squad?

There didn't need to be multiple absences, which is the point I was making. You've just lost Antony, who knows for how long and are short of attacking options. It's in ETH's interests to find a way to get Sancho onside and in the squad. ETH chose not to and it's ended up with Utd suffering as a result. There will be people that believe ETH was right to do, I think it was needless self harm and could have been dealt with better.

People did notice. They asked the question. He answered it

This is what he said. It really isn't anything bad. The media have made a massive mountain out of it. He is just speaking facts. He wasn't good enough in training and wasn't selected for the squad. Quite simple really. I am a really blunt person too so maybe that is why I can relate to it.

Journo's ask questions all the time, how managers answer them is what creates stories. Sancho not being in the squad wasn't big news, ETH saying he was **** in training creates a news story. You can blame the media all you want but they are what they are - ETH's experienced enough to know how his words will be taken and what reaction those comments will get. He could have said "Sancho's an important member of the squad but I can only name 18 players today" and this saga is avoided.

 

[Shamikebab]

There didn't need to be multiple absences, which is the point I was making. You've just lost Antony, who knows for how long and are short of attacking options. It's in ETH's interests to find a way to get Sancho onside and in the squad. ETH chose not to and it's ended up with Utd suffering as a result. There will be people that believe ETH was right to do, I think it was needless self harm and could have been dealt with better.

But how? By all accounts this has been ongoing for a year and ETH has tried multiple ways to fix it to no effect. How is he suddenly going to fix it? In the end if the player is taking the **** he's not going to play, and if he's not going to play then people are going to notice.

 

[BaZ87]

But how? By all accounts this has been ongoing for a year and ETH has tried multiple ways to fix it to no effect. How is he suddenly going to fix it? In the end if the player is taking the **** he's not going to play, and if he's not going to play then people are going to notice.

If you can't fix it then you find a way to manage it. Sancho not being 100% at it in training (or being late every so often (if that is true)) is still of use to Utd right now. Try a bit more carrot and a little less stick just to get through these next couple of months and then bin him in January, when he still has some sort of value. It's surely better than the scenario you have now?

I fail to see how an experienced manager, who has dealt with far more difficult situations* than a player not performing well enough in training, couldn't have found a way to get something out of Sancho.

*And I'm not just talking about Greenwood or Antony. For those that might not know, ETH stood by Quincy Promes after he was arrested for stabbing somebody (something he was later charged with attempted murder for) - he continued to pick the player until he could eventually be smuggled off to Russia a few months later. If you can turn a blind eye to that sort of issue for the good of your club then you can turn a blind eye to Sancho not tying his laces in training.

 

[Converge]

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The life of a Utd manager.

 

[Shamikebab]

If you can't fix it then you find a way to manage it. Sancho not being 100% at it in training (or being late every so often (if that is true)) is still of use to Utd right now. Try a bit more carrot and a little less stick just to get through these next couple of months and then bin him in January, when he still has some sort of value. It's surely better than the scenario you have now?

I fail to see how an experienced manager, who has dealt with far more difficult situations* than a player not performing well enough in training, couldn't have found a way to get something out of Sancho.

*And I'm not just talking about Greenwood or Antony. For those that might not know, ETH stood by Quincy Promes after he was arrested for stabbing somebody (something he was later charged with attempted murder for) - he continued to pick the player until he could eventually be smuggled off to Russia a few months later. If you can turn a blind eye to that sort of issue for the good of your club then you can turn a blind eye to Sancho not tying his laces in training.

How much carrot can you give? He was given 3 months off midseason to get himself sorted. he defended him to the hilt last season. He's had problems in training and being late all his career by all accounts (and you know Sancho would be denying it if it wasn't true)

You have to have standards, I can't believe you'd be saying Klopp should continue to pick a Liverpool player who was taking the **** like this.

 

[omnomnom]

How much carrot can you give? He was given 3 months off midseason to get himself sorted. he defended him to the hilt last season. He's had problems in training and being late all his career by all accounts (and you know Sancho would be denying it if it wasn't true)

You have to have standards, I can't believe you'd be saying Klopp should continue to pick a Liverpool player who was taking the **** like this.

ETH was willing to let Greenwood back into the first team...what standards are we talking about here?

And no Klopp wouldnt, he'd quietly send him packing.

 

[BaZ87]

How much carrot can you give? He was given 3 months off midseason to get himself sorted. he defended him to the hilt last season. He's had problems in training and being late all his career by all accounts (and you know Sancho would be denying it if it wasn't true)

You have to have standards, I can't believe you'd be saying Klopp should continue to pick a Liverpool player who was taking the **** like this.

Whatever is needed to get you through until January when you can resolve it once and for all. And I know it's not ideal but you have to make the best of a bad situation.

You make the point about Klopp and you're right, I wouldn't but I don't think Klopp would have got the this situation in the first place. In the 8 years Klopp has been with us, the only disciplinary issue that I can think of that every became public was Sakho and that was because he was sent home from a pre-season tour. Klopp dealt with him there and then, he was binned and Klavan was brought in straight away. It's incredibly rare for a manager to call out a player, particularly a manager that's not in a position of strength. Now I have no idea if any of these situations relate to a player not performing in training but whenever Klopp gets asked about players that have been left out of the squad, he almost always goes the other way and makes a big deal about how unfortunate they are not to be in the squad. One thing you could never accuse Klopp of is bad man management skills - this guy left Alberto Moreno on the bench for James Milner for an entire season and Moreno would have still run through a brick wall for him if Klopp asked.

And to be crystal clear, I'm in no way defending Sancho. Even before this saga he was fast becoming one of the biggest flops in PL history but if as you say this has been an ongoing issue that ETH has been dealing with then just deal with in for another few months until you can get rid of him and replace him.

 

[Shamikebab]

You say that like it would be easily resolved in January. What happens when he rejects offers like he did when we accepted an offer from Saudi Arabia? You can't force a player out against their will.

 

[BaZ87]

You say that like it would be easily resolved in January. What happens when he rejects offers like he did when we accepted an offer from Saudi Arabia? You can't force a player out against their will.

No, it wouldn't be easy but it's not insurmountable either. Even before this Utd would be in a position where they'd have to pay-off or subsidise his contract but I don't believe it would be impossible to find a club that Sancho would be interested in joining and agreeing a deal where Utd pay x% of his wages. You found somebody for Greenwood afterall. Just because he didn't fancy moving to Saudi that doesn't mean he wouldn't join a Spurs, Villa, Dortmund, Leverkusen etc. You'd probably have to give him away for nothing and or pay a huge chunk of his wages but it's better than paying all his wages while he trains with the youth side, adding to the circus that Utd are at the moment.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Antony back in the UK and has to speak to the police about the allegations.

 

[sigma]

Ok and how does that change what Danny (or I have) said? Whether you think Sancho deserved to be outed or not, this saga was created by ETH's comments and has resulted in Utd having a £350k per week player sat on his arse doing nothing and you will have to pay to leave. That's what Danny said and that's what has happened. If you think Danny's got an agenda against Utd and has made numerous comments about ETH then argue about that rather than pick out a single line where what he said was 100% accurate

Now on the wider issue about Sancho, there are times in life where you need to be a bit pragmatic and bite your tongue for your own good, regardless of what you think is best and this, imo, is a perfect example of that. ETH made his point by dropping Sancho, what more does he gain from outing him in the press? Of all the clubs in the world that could do without the added drama right now, it's Utd. And of all the clubs that could do with having Sancho available to them right now, it's Utd again. Bite your tongue, speak to the player in private after the Spurs game and find a way to get something out of him over the next few months because it's in your an the clubs best interests. If approaching January things haven't improved then you can then look to move him on without him being totally worthless.

You can believe ETH was right in doing what he did but all the backslapping in the world isn't going to change the fact that Utd have ended up worse off as a result of the saga created by those comments.

He probably did it to take the heat off Antony for a while.

 

[adam cool dude]

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The life of a Utd manager.

People are rattled by ETH after his first season in charge and will do everything to get rid of him. It is just pure envy because everyone knows deep down that if United get their act together and we get new owners it will awaken the beast and they do not want to see that.

Everyone will go back under their rock when our injured players start coming back (You are already seeing it) and we start winning again.

 

[BaZ87]

My god I love you Adam

 

[C Kent]

People are rattled by ETH after his first season in charge and will do everything to get rid of him. It is just pure envy because everyone knows deep down that if United get their act together and we get new owners it will awaken the beast and they do not want to see that.

Everyone will go back under their rock when our injured players start coming back (You are already seeing it) and we start winning again.

I hope he's your manager for many a long year, just like every other manager you've had since ferguson, imo they were all sacked far to early.

 

[Calpol]

Antony back in the UK and has to speak to the police about the allegations.

Can't say this filled me with joy. I'm quite happy with him and Sancho out of action for a while. We aren't short of talented wide players.
Garnacho, Pellistri, Amad, Rashford and Mount/Bruno can play wide.

 

[adam cool dude]

I hope he's your manager for many a long year, just like every other manager you've had since ferguson, imo they were all sacked far to early.

Well he has currently got a 64% win percentage. Two domestic cup finals with a win in one and a strong points finish in his first season in charge. He did all this whilst sorting out Ronaldo, identifying that Maguire is simply not up to it as well sorting out plenty of deadwood in the process.

Please tell me from that what there is not to like? He is the first person since Fergie who actually wants to take charge of the club.

We have had a shaky start to this season but mainly because we overachieved last season and the 12+ injuries that we have had to key players. Everything we will be quiet as a mouse when Bayern come back to Old Trafford and get beat.

 

[sigma]

People are rattled by ETH after his first season in charge and will do everything to get rid of him. It is just pure envy because everyone knows deep down that if United get their act together and we get new owners it will awaken the beast and they do not want to see that.

Everyone will go back under their rock when our injured players start coming back (You are already seeing it) and we start winning again.

I'm sure I see more comments in here from Liverpool fans than I do from United fans!

 

[sigma]

ETH said this about Garnacho yesterday "You have seen at the start of the season we played him and then his contribution was not good enough" I await the Instagram cry baby response along with all the Liverpool and Everton fans asking when he's going to lodge a complaint with HR.

 

[omnomnom]

ETH said this about Garnacho yesterday "You have seen at the start of the season we played him and then his contribution was not good enough" I await the Instagram cry baby response along with all the Liverpool and Everton fans asking when he's going to lodge a complaint with HR.

If you are going to make these silly claims at least use the full quote.

"But he had also then some good actions. You see always that he always is attracting the game even when he is not playing that well.

"And he has to learn, ‘When I do my job in defending, I will always have my moment.’

"And he will always be decisive, because he has great qualities."

"But I think it’s quite normal, for a player of his age, that there is space for a lot of improvement.

"I think everyone likes him, the fans like him, the team like him, I like him, but also we have to demand him and we have to push him, because he can act on a very high level but he has to show it every day."

Not remotely close to the same thing.