Really. People actually think about battery chemistry in a car in case they have a bump ???
EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Soldato
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says who?
If your an engineer who likes to read around the subject to better inform themselves then yes.
I have a lithium iron phosphate battery powering my house. For example. So I know the advantages and disadvantages well.
Soldato
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lots of reasons to consider the battery chemistry. safety is one, but also sustainability as well as long term reliability.
we used to have 2 diesel cars (we still have one) but we will never have another because there are better alternatives now. I think for many people LFP batteries are just a better choice.
hopefully sodium ion batteries will add another option soon as well
Atm apparently LFP is more expensive to manufacture but that’s mainly due to scale.
As more and more LFP capacity added it will be much cheaper than NMC chemistry. But NMC will be reserved for top of the range or faster vehicles due to the capabilities of getting huge current out of them.
LFP is better battery solution for general use when compared with NMC and better environmentally.
As more and more LFP capacity added it will be much cheaper than NMC chemistry. But NMC will be reserved for top of the range or faster vehicles due to the capabilities of getting huge current out of them.
LFP is better battery solution for general use when compared with NMC and better environmentally.
Yeah, this is absolutely my biggest concern as well. Having to charge every X miles isn't a problem at all, but whenever I need to use a public charger there's always that nag in the back of my mind "is it going to be working, will there be a massive queue?”
So far we've been lucky, but it's almost certainly just a matter of time
Sorry Simon but I just can’t reconcile this.
The current gen LR has 30% larger battery than my current gen SR and it’s certainly doesn’t use 30% more electrons to go places, more like 5-10%. I don’t don’t drive like a granny to get 200 miles out my SR, far from it. I’m finding it hard to see how you could struggle to get 200 miles out an LR… even if it was an old one.
NMC is more expensive overall which is driven by its material cost.
LFP is more expensive manufacture due to its higher complexity but it is still materially cheaper per kWh to make.
It being cheaper is why it’s being used more and more in cars where the limiting factor is not energy density of the battery.
NMC will be used in the highest range cars where density matters for the foreseeable.
Sodium is lower density than LFP which is a bit of a problem for use in vehicles in ‘the west’ where we generally insist on having larger capacity batteries.
That said I don’t think the 60kwh of LFP cells physically fills the battery pack in my vehicle. So there may be scope for fitting a lower density cell (or more LFP cells).
motorway. Admittedly I think it was hot so aircon was on. But I could never get more than 60kWh in either. I did the battery test in the service menu on the first one which ran battery down to zero and it still struggled. (Battery health was 89% post test)
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Sodium are about 60-70% of the density. Only benefit is safety. Do you worry about cars setting on fire ?
Soldato
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no I don't worry about cars setting on fire but the only benefit is safety is not true at all
a Sodium Ion battery would in principle be much more sustainable (sodium is also cheap to source locally). no good for long range cars perhaps but for the 2nd "run around" car they could be perfect
Totally agree, the two M3LRs I owned would do 300 miles quite happily.
This was from a trip to Washington D.C., the car predicted a 25% arrival, I think I actually arrived with over 30%.
I've seen enough people doing capacity tests of the M3LR that 60kwh is nonsensical.. Bjorn N did his capacity tests on several versions of the M3LR, the older packs he squeezed in 69-70kwh, the newer larger packs he got 76kwh (82kwh claimed) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MzvvWJHrBS82echMVJH37kwgjE/edit#gid=735351678
I've done side by side with a M3LR and my ID.3 (58kwh) in ideal summer conditions and there is no doubt the M3LR on motorways is a degree better in terms of range, we did a 260 mile journey, I had to stop around 180 miles (8% left from fully charge), my brother made it the entire 260 miles with 3% remaining from fully charged..
The only issues I've had with capacity was the borked battery module in my ID.3 (It was a common issue and fixed under warranty), the BMS disabled one pack effectively, netting me only 47kwh of usable capacity until they swapped the module out.. if I was only getting 60kwh in a LR M3, I'd be checking for problems..
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These guys have just done some real world testing of the new standard range.
303km (188 miles) gunning it down the autobahn.
410km (254 miles) majority motorway @ 80 mph
Interesting the the WLTP range of 318 is actually with the option 19” wheels and the 18” should be better
303km (188 miles) gunning it down the autobahn.
410km (254 miles) majority motorway @ 80 mph
Interesting the the WLTP range of 318 is actually with the option 19” wheels and the 18” should be better
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Soldato
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250miles of 80mph motorway is excellent.
Seems about on par with that I’d expect. It wasn’t all motorway, the first 50km was on smaller slower roads and there was some traffic which would have helped. That’s real world at the end of the day though, even if you travelled in the middle of the night you’ll probably hit road works etc on certain stretches.
They seemed a bit confused with the charging side of things and probably isn’t out of step with the general public and no doubt reinforces the FUD people see.
They thought they’d get 250kw on the SR which isn’t going to happen and they were also disappointed with the charging speed at the second stop not realising they were plugged into a slower V2 charger. They also seemed surprised that the didn’t precondition but they rolled up to the charger on 0% so it was probably a good thing it didn’t!
They seemed a bit confused with the charging side of things and probably isn’t out of step with the general public and no doubt reinforces the FUD people see.
They thought they’d get 250kw on the SR which isn’t going to happen and they were also disappointed with the charging speed at the second stop not realising they were plugged into a slower V2 charger. They also seemed surprised that the didn’t precondition but they rolled up to the charger on 0% so it was probably a good thing it didn’t!
Soldato
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Average speed would help. That said im so passed taking an interest in these reviews.
Must be downhill. Again no information
From what I saw is that while they were on a 120/h or even unrestricted motorway at times but they were definitely not going that speed the entire time.
Up to 80mph is fair and they were not driving deliberately slowly but the average speed was considerably lower due the flow of traffic and the slower roads they used at the start.
You could probably work out the average speed if you were bothered as they probably showed the time when the left and arrived but they were not exactly accurate or professional reviewers….
Up to 80mph is fair and they were not driving deliberately slowly but the average speed was considerably lower due the flow of traffic and the slower roads they used at the start.
You could probably work out the average speed if you were bothered as they probably showed the time when the left and arrived but they were not exactly accurate or professional reviewers….
It's down to the individual.
I do agree that actually a 170-220ish motorway range car is a good bet hedging starting point, and exactly what we did with the ID.3, although that was with prior experience of borrowing the BMW i3 with ~100 miles of range, so we already knew that was not going to work for us.
After two years, we are now moving on to a Model Y LR precisely because of us doing longer trips more often (25 this year!) and finding public charging more of a mare than expected, having to go to that next level of planning and many cross country trips we do, you need to go 15 miles out your way to find a 50kw+ Charger and usually they are occupied/out of order, meaning a Plan B and sometimes C are often required and on a weekend break, that is a complete PITA.. negotiating heavy traffic + charging can be stressful..
So we will try the Super charger network + a more real world 220-270 miles and see if that alleviates things.. not to mention it's pretty good VFM on lease anything that size with 75+kwh is more expensive.
Will be good to see if Bjorn gets one, he's also not that scientific, but probably the closest comparison wise since he repeat tests popular cars in different weather conditions and does his best to set the true GPS speed and measure distance etc.
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