EV general discussion

pc-guy said:
You what…it’s just a variable tariff.

You have to average out your monthly usage. Yes you get those periods where they give you money to use leccy. But you also get periods where all day the leccy is over 20p/unit and peak rate was 50p/unit which was a couple of weeks back.

Pointless to just state the best but if a variable tariff.

I assume OVO is charge any time? That is all day anytime.
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there are just 2 prices 7.5p off peak 11:30pm-5:30am and then (roughly) 30p the rest of the day.

then there are the bonus sessions where you get 7.5p even in peak periods

there are no 50p amounts and no negatives either I think you are thinking of tracker or maybe agile

edit I should have read all replies 1st :)

as for ICE cars being better to drive. I do get it, I have had a few "drivers" cars and I admit I like the sound of a nice engine and a throaty exhaust as much as the next person but imo it's a sacrifice which I felt I needed to make. I can't fill an ICE car from the solar panels on my roof no matter now great a drive it is.

getting the most use out of the existing rolling stock is fine but personally I could not with clear conscience buy a new ICE car now that there are genuinely practical electric alternatives, it isn't an industry I think we should support .

that said I would be a liar if I said I didn't try to get an F Type courtesy car when my car went for its MOT at the start of the month.;)
 
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Agile is more fun :p . Best thing is to work out what’s best for you. Any conversation around it where people confuse their opinion with fact get tedious at the best of times and downright baffling the other times.

For me in the UK solar is a nice top up to a battery install, it’s often viewed the other way round but the maths to make solar work is a lot harder than a battery.
 
SDK^ said:
Driving an ICE car through stop/start commuter traffic daily.... no thanks !
P.S - you can't hear my electric motor :)
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If we are talking about driver feel or 'soul' of a car - Then I assume people have a manual gearbox for driving feel and engagement, and I can understand that.

But if you are going to get an automatic ICE car, and don't need to do ridiculously long journeys constantly then the EV's are a no brainer. Instant torque, smoothness, acceleration etc.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Agile is more fun :p . Best thing is to work out what’s best for you. Any conversation around it where people confuse their opinion with fact get tedious at the best of times and downright baffling the other times.

For me in the UK solar is a nice top up to a battery install, it’s often viewed the other way round but the maths to make solar work is a lot harder than a battery.
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Agreed, the battery I’m having installed has a far better ROI than the solar being installed next to it and it will lower my total energy costs considerably more than the solar will.

That’s one of the pitfalls of fixed MCS calculations, the batteries are sold as improving the yields from solar rather than how effective they are at lowing your total energy costs via time of use tariffs.
 
VincentHanna said:
If we are talking about driver feel or 'soul' of a car - Then I assume people have a manual gearbox for driving feel and engagement, and I can understand that.
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For sure - but most people making these 'i'm sticking with ICE for engagement and soul' are driving around in under-powered boxes on wheels:D
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Agreed, the battery I’m having installed has a far better ROI than the solar being installed next to it and it will lower my total energy costs considerably more than the solar will.

That’s one of the pitfalls of fixed MCS calculations, the batteries are sold as improving the yields from solar rather than how effective they are at lowing your total energy costs via time of use tariffs.
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yes and no. the battery does well right now with time of use tariffs however they *could* change somewhat going forward where as you can't lose if you generate it yourself.
it also depends where in the country you live.
I looked into it before getting mine and figured at the time both are equally important.. in summer on octopus flux my panels made me a packet.
november-feb inclusive obviously the panels don't do much and then the battery with off peak electricity comes into its own.

tldr it's not an either or imo..... with the right house in the right location both are a no brainer if you don't plan on moving.
 
I’m not saying it’s an either-or, I’m just saying the RoI is better for me.

As much as you say time of use tariffs could change, the same could be said about flux too.

Time of use tariffs are not going anywhere anytime soon, if anything they are going to get more common as more renewables come online. Plunge pricing is going to get more common, specifically during the day/afternoon as more solar gets put on the grid.

The issues California now has with solar tanking day time grid demand when the suns out will eventually make it over here now panels are so much cheaper and more efficient than they were just a few years ago.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
My problem with EVs is they are soulless. Yeah they are quick in a straight line but so what. Give me a living breathing ICE everyday of the week over a whining electric motor.
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Have you tried one? Personally, and I've owned some nice characterful ICE cars before, I've found that I've not missed them. I enjoy the simplicity of EV driving. I do consider them more of an appliance but that's not necessarily a bad thing on our now overcrowded roads & getting from A to B. I've considered getting an ICE car as a backup, something for the weekends but I soon go off the idea again :D
Even some of the best affordable current ICE cars have piped in sounds now anyway which is soul destroying in regards to trying to appreciate the mechanical excellence of what might be underneath
 
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I agree that ICE cars have more involvement, great for some B road blasting, but a pita for daily driving.

But honestly ICE cars, even fast ones feel completely dead compared to how responsive my model 3 is. Literally can't imagine going without my hair trigger 'go' pedal. Imagine if the change was in the other direction, people would be up in arms about how unresponsive ice are.
 
When I did my calcs I had similar ROI for battery and panels.
They both eat each others lunch a little, more like a 1+1 = 1.75 equation when you get both.

Panels are awesome once you start getting strong days, March - Sept
Batteries are awesome for being able to buy cheap units and use them instead of peak Oct - March, and for storing some of your own generated solar when solar is strong for when the sun goes in / down.

The thing is it can change constantly. So yes there is some risk in batteries ROI because you do need a cheap tariff to charge them for most of their benefit.
I don't think TOU tariffs are going to go, but the ROI of batteries goes waaaay out when they are not available.

Plus the big annoyance with batteries is they are far more likely to not meet specs than panels. Plenty of people have issues with batteries and I bet its even more than who actually recognise this. Most will just assume they meet the specs sold to them on.
Anyway, proper thread for this conversation in home and garden ;)
 
SDK^ said:
For sure - but most people making these 'i'm sticking with ICE for engagement and soul' are driving around in under-powered boxes on wheels:D
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Depends on what you want out of a car, for me there's far more fun to be had in an under powered MX-5 or GR86 vs a 2 tonne milk float, nearly every manual ICE I've tried trumps an EV for interactivity and involvement even my knackered old fwd hatchback can do that :p Going ballistic in a straight line and managing excessive weight in the corners....yawn

Of course I say that driving an MX-5 with 260bhp/tonne, better power to weight than many EVs :D perhaps that is not a fair comparison :D

Still got to love the sereneness of an EV in traffic or cruising. I hope all the fakery the likes of the Ioniq 5 N has can spice things up, will do nothing for the weight of course but at least might make a b road blast or a bit of circuit work interactive in an EV beyond athe weight management game.

FerretBoy said:
But honestly ICE cars, even fast ones feel completely dead compared to how responsive my model 3 is. Literally can't imagine going without my hair trigger 'go' pedal. Imagine if the change was in the other direction, people would be up in arms about how unresponsive ice are.
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throttle response maybe, chassis response, something else, I've not had a car over 1200kg for a few decades, only cars to break that for me are tow cars, so most new EV things feel like unresponsive tanks with zero steering feedback comparatively. to be fair, many new ICE have same issues, being ICE doesn't make it suddenly good.

b0rn2sk8 said:
I’m not saying it’s an either-or, I’m just saying the RoI is better for me.
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This looks good from my perspective too, too much glass in my roof for decent solar but the math on just using a battery and off peak tariff works well.
 
sounds like a strawman - his milkcart eats that V

OVO ev tarif with a granny charger, if that is possible, now sounds like it would be way to get a decent ev charge at my remote 6KW cabled garage,
is the charging less efficient with the lower charge rate though.

 
Many folk I know, that have switched from nice ICE to EV have not missed them at all, they arent overly happy with EV for long journeys, but other than that sums stack up, tax and fuel savings stack up and they like the quiet whirring along.

Im still firmly in the PHEV camp, I cant save money with an EV with my mileage. I had a MY for 4 days, and their network is simply brilliant, even for a high mileage user is workable. But the MY is not for me, maybe my mindset, but it does nothing for me. The tech, the looks, the other Tesla drivers means a big fat no. Im going to test the I4 and ID7 in the new year, i find them aesthetically pleasing at the very least.
 
I've copied this from an ev forum so props to them.
Take it as satire but, any ice drivers car to answer?



I am thinking of replacing my electric car with a petrol car and have some questions.

1. I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep?
How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home?

2. Which parts will I need service on and how often?
The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?

3. Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?

4. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill?
I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.

5. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?

6. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 20,000 miles a year. Let's hope more people will start using petrol so prices go down.

7. Is it true that petrol is flammable?
Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?

8. Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?

9. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives?
Is there a solution to these problems?

10. I have heard that cars with internal combustion based engines are being banned to enter more and more cities around the world, as it is claimed that they tend to harm the environment and health of their citizens??

11. Is it true that driving your diesel ICE past a school will give the kids in the playground an increased risk of cancer?
 
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jpaul said:
sounds like a strawman - his milkcart eats that V

OVO ev tarif with a granny charger, if that is possible, now sounds like it would be way to get a decent ev charge at my remote 6KW cabled garage,
is the charging less efficient with the lower charge rate though.
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You’ll be better off using IOG if you have a compatible car. For all of the time your car is charging, all your consumption is at 7.5p and yes that includes those who are charging with a granny charger on a compatible car which takes a lot longer than a 7kw charger.

Charging is less efficient using a granny lead but it’s not significant. Granny chargers are ‘not ideal’ if you need to drive a considerable distance 2 days on the bounce as you’ll not get the car recharged in time.

You could also just trench in a proper cable for a proper charge point, you don’t need to pay an electrician to do that for you.

6kw is a bit of an odd number. Breakers are usually 6, 20, or 32A. If you’ve got 16A available you could get a commando socket installed which would be 50% faster than a 3 pin.
 
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sparkymark75 said:
Arguments lose all seriousness when they call an EV a "milk float". That's like referring to all ICE vehicles as lawn mowers!
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Mine has often been referred to as a lawn mower when I have gone off at events :D damn fast one :D

Lawn mower burn is normal, I won't cry about it, in fact after a mate took the record at combe in his radical I knocked this up due to the amount of grass he took on attempts.

Lawn-Mower-Runaway.png
 
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m4rmite said:
I've copied this from an ev forum so props to them.
Take it as satire but, any ice drivers car to answer?



I am thinking of replacing my electric car with a petrol car and have some questions.

1. I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep?
How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home?

2. Which parts will I need service on and how often?
The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?

3. Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?

4. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill?
I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.

5. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?

6. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 20,000 miles a year. Let's hope more people will start using petrol so prices go down.

7. Is it true that petrol is flammable?
Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?

8. Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?

9. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives?
Is there a solution to these problems?

10. I have heard that cars with internal combustion based engines are being banned to enter more and more cities around the world, as it is claimed that they tend to harm the environment and health of their citizens??

11. Is it true that driving your diesel ICE past a school will give the kids in the playground an increased risk of cancer?
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drivel from people who were perfectly happy with their ice 10 years ago
 
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