9 bars of pressure is going to compress the puck way harder than you can tamp. Tamp as hard as it takes till the puck stops giving.
Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread
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Tamping pressure makes a massive difference to the extraction. If it was just the water pressure that matters then why bother tamping at all?
Caporegime
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Made another one, this time it squirted towards the water tank...sour again.
I am doing something wrong somewhere.....
I am doing something wrong somewhere.....
I didn't say don't tamp I just said you can't over tamp because 9 bars compacts the puck more than you can pressing down as hard as you could. Soft or under tamping will just lead to faster channeling.
I have a decent and I see in real time pressure at the puck and pick resistance. Take away advice would be tamp firmly until the puck stops giving.
You can definitely over-tamp. I have mine dialled in nicely and pulling perfectly on a bottomless filter, and I know if I overtamp it will under-extract and even choke the machine if I really lean on it.
I would have to grind coarser if I wanted to still pull a decent shot with a heavier tamp, which I don't really see any need for.
How do you prepare the puck? I don't mix the grinds (can't bring myself to use the term WDT). Grind into the filter, tap the side a little until it's evenly distributed, use a leveller (although I'm not sure how useful it is), then tamp.
I'd try going finer on the grind personally.
Caporegime
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First time I grind into the dosing up and poured into the PF.
2nd time I grind straight into the PF.
Both time I used a needle thing to break up lumps. Then a leveller tool, then tamp.
27 sec is a bit fast in my experience with the classic at that ratio, but it’s hard to get consistency sometimes. Can you grind finer? I would think you’re not far off.
What basket and beans are they?
Also are you temp surfing or doing anything with trying to manage it? Usually for me a decent warm up period and pulling a bit of water through until light goes out, then wait 5 sec once it’s back on and go.
What basket and beans are they?
Also are you temp surfing or doing anything with trying to manage it? Usually for me a decent warm up period and pulling a bit of water through until light goes out, then wait 5 sec once it’s back on and go.
Caporegime
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I can grind finer, I am only at 12 in the scale (start from 0, espresso range on the marker starts at 10).
I am using a VST basket with a IMS shower screen. As for temp serve, nope, just warm up until PF is hot and make the coffee.
The beans are from a place for Bean Smitten, a blend (forgot the name, I got it last month for my birthday), a medium level of roast.
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I suspect you want to go a fair bit finer than with that kit. I actually dialled in originally with my new grinder by going very fine and seeing the machine choke, then gradually coming back until I had 1:2 or 1:2.5 fairly regularly in 35 ish seconds. Most of the time that made an ok shot but I guess beans will make a fair bit of difference as well.
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Can you clarify "over tamp" and what psi that would be?
If I tamp very hard, i.e. leaning hard on the tamper, I can go from a good espresso to choking the machine.
You will not convince me tamp pressure doesn't matter because it quite evidently does. I know you want to believe your fancy machine has every single relevant data point, but it doesn't have this one.
There are days when I wish I was back on my simple bean to cup. Today was one such day!
Opened a new bag of Monsoon beans. Lobbed 17g into the grinder, out came a colossal static mess of grinds. I cleaned up and tried again and spent about 30mins dialing in as I had to go courser. By the end of all of this I was staring fondly at my dlonghi bean to cup, sitting in the corner of the kitchen waiting to be moved to me mums place.
Opened a new bag of Monsoon beans. Lobbed 17g into the grinder, out came a colossal static mess of grinds. I cleaned up and tried again and spent about 30mins dialing in as I had to go courser. By the end of all of this I was staring fondly at my dlonghi bean to cup, sitting in the corner of the kitchen waiting to be moved to me mums place.
Monsoon Malabar? Notorious for being dry and static. Hoffman encourages adding a tiny drop/spray of water to the beans pre-grind. I do it myself and find it brings static down a lot.
There's a risk of damage/rust to the burrs if using too much water though.
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What grinder are you using?
Only beans I use really
I mean I've been through multiple bags of the stuff and rarely use RDT as my Sette 270 has very little retention. This has happened once before but stopped after a couple of grinds.Baratza Sette 270
Loud but fast with little retention. Going to grind in a moment!long time haven't been in a reputable cafe to see a professional barista and their daily tamping technique/speed, assuming they are not using marzocco auto-tampers.
(pantomimes of competitions aside ... they should do speed pulling)
but yes I didn't find any benefit of a stirring tool, grinder dumps measured static free mound into pf,
couple of bangs with the heal of the hand,gentle levelling with tamper e:rocking it side to side/back to front, then a single more robust turn of maybe 180 degrees - 10s total maybe
(pantomimes of competitions aside ... they should do speed pulling)
but yes I didn't find any benefit of a stirring tool, grinder dumps measured static free mound into pf,
couple of bangs with the heal of the hand,
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Have you knocked the pf as you put it in the group head?
The elektra is like this - anything wrong and the lever spring will punish you
in the spring we believe and itshall punisheth deviation from perfection (gush/sulk etc)
Check grind consistency and distribution before tamping. Tamping is not a solution to uneven prep. Also the tamp should be tight but not vacuum tight as it will lift the puck grains causing channels.
The elektra also requires the oils to prevent it from gushing and as hard as you try, tamping will not solve that - are your grinds getting too hot in the grinder?
Sour is also when the puck is too cold and the water is possibly being cooled by a cold group head.
You’ve guessed it - the elektra will also punish you for not warming the grouphead/pf with sour coffee.. the second coffee is usually sweet and balanced, and the third/fourth is usually starting to get tones of bitter if the group head heat is not managed.
How long is the machine on before matters but I suspect you have a PID managing the temperature.
Too finer grind, with a hard tamp and fresh roast ..and the elektra lever will sit there and no water gets through the puck.. there’s two options - first leave to get cold, several hours, leaver down and then undo the pf. This way there’s no boiler pressure when you push the lever ans it then allows the pressure to be eased off..
The other option is the hot option.. wrap a towel around the gh and pf joint, and a stacked towel shock absorber underneath. The mummy wrapped pf is now ready.. gently turn the pf to disengage.. following the mild explosion, the scalding steam and coffee bean mix should be absorbed by the towels.. and you hope there’s no gap..
Everyone needs an elektra in their life at some point.. it’s like an italian girlfriend.. you learn fast, forgive the quirks and enjoy the beautiful coffee.
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