EV general discussion

OspreyO said:
V2G is interesting but I can't but think it's both confusing for the average consumer to get any value from it considering the draw backs. But also perhaps a bit pointless holistically.
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What do you think the drawbacks are?

Given the battery will outlast the car, along as the warranty is somewhat sensible and some sensible limits are put around discharge cycles, I’m not really sure what the issue would be.

The vast majority of people are going to be DNO limited anyway, particularly given export limits are first come first served.
 
OspreyO said:
Golf and ID3 are in no way comparable except very superficially.
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lol wut

Feel free to post a better pairing for the topic of comparing an ICE car to a ground up EV on as even a footing as reasonably practical.

Hint: Tesla Model 3 vs BMW M3 isn't a better comparison
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
What do you think the drawbacks are?

Given the battery will outlast the car, along as the warranty is somewhat sensible and some sensible limits are put around discharge cycles, I’m not really sure what the issue would be.

The vast majority of people are going to be DNO limited anyway, particularly given export limits are first come first served.
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The whole Idea of increasing demand off peak only to feed it back seems like a recipe to increase off peak demand to a point where there is no off peak.
 
Simon said:
Ok thanks posting police. Can you not address the counter point? The VW uses a smaller battery..
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I have no idea what your point was. That why I politely asked.

VW uses a smaller battery than..? The Tesla? Or larger than the eGolf/eUp.

I assume they worked out a price point for the battery size they thought was commercially viable while at the same time cutting things buttons, rear windows buttons etc, cheaper interior.

Does everyone need a 77kw battery? We've gone made with massive larger batteries than mostly aren't needed.

Afaik the first gen ID3 77kw are 4 seaters Vs 5 seats in the smaller battery. Whereas the model 3 isn't Tesla's first EV. So they have more experience of fine tuning it.
 
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OspreyO said:
The whole Idea of increasing demand off peak only to feed it back seems like a recipe to increase off peak demand to a point where there is no off peak.
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Huh? It's about storing renewable energy when it isn't being used and demand is at the low point. If you plug in a car all day at home/work, it'll trickle out amps to the building/grid when required, and trickle in when there is an excess to be stored. Most cars sit most of the day doing nothing at all, if a large majority of those cars are sat acting as vast local battery storage and power delivery then you are on to a huge winner. We shouldn't forget about powering your house in a power cut etc. either.
 
OspreyO said:
I have no idea what your point was. That why I politely asked.

VW uses a smaller battery than..? The Tesla? Or larger than the eGolf/eUp.

I assume they worked out a price point for the battery size they thought was commercially viable while at the same time cutting things buttons, rear windows buttons etc, cheaper interior.

Does everyone need a 77kw battery? We've gone made with massive larger batteries than mostly aren't needed.

Afaik the first gen ID3 77kw are 4 seaters Vs 5 seats in the smaller battery. Whereas the model 3 isn't Tesla's first EV. So they have more experience of fine tuning it.
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VW know a lot more about body stiffness for global NVH and suspension tuning for ride AND rolling refinement that’s for sure!

The id4 and subsequent uplift of the rear axle gross axle weight means they now can offer 5 seats. Pretty normal for an OEM releasing and refining their portfolio.

Musky posting smell.
 
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OspreyO said:
I have no idea what your point was. That why I politely asked.

VW uses a smaller battery than..? The Tesla? Or larger than the eGolf/eUp.

I assume they worked out a price point for the battery size they thought was commercially viable while at the same time cutting things buttons, rear windows buttons etc, cheaper interior.

Does everyone need a 77kw battery? We've gone made with massive larger batteries than mostly aren't needed.

Afaik the first gen ID3 77kw are 4 seaters Vs 5 seats in the smaller battery. Whereas the model 3 isn't Tesla's first EV. So they have more experience of fine tuning it.
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Was a homologation weight issue. Not technical

58kwh in id3 is smaller than 60kwh in Tesla. Note the kWh not kW. So that’s all I said to you saying be use a bigger battery. I see why you need more words on posts
 
Journey said:
Huh? It's about storing renewable energy when it isn't being used and demand is at the low point. If you plug in a car all day at home/work, it'll trickle out amps to the building/grid when required, and trickle in when there is an excess to be stored. Most cars sit most of the day doing nothing at all, if a large majority of those cars are sat acting as vast local battery storage and power delivery then you are on to a huge winner. We shouldn't forget about powering your house in a power cut etc. either.
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That feels like outsourcing the cost of infrastructure to the consumers under the guise of cheaper electricity but which won't actually offset the cost to the consumer of that infrastructure.
 
OspreyO said:
Will it not increase overall demand though. Even it the extreme peaks are lower. People will be pulling electricity they don't actually need. That seems counter productive.
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A constant requirement below what you can deliver is not a problem, it’s extreme peaks during high demand that causes a problem.

Think of it like a PC with an 750w PSU ticking along at a regular 500w during gaming, it can cope all day long or for many days without issue. Now have it spike to 800w regularly and it will start causing random reboots, tripping and eventually fail.
 
Simon said:
Was a homologation weight issue. Not technical

58kwh in id3 is smaller than 60kwh in Tesla. Note the kWh not kW. So that’s all I said to you saying be use a bigger battery. I see why you need more words on posts
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You're getting hung up on the numbers. All I'm saying is clean sheet EV designs are trying reduce weight to get more out of the battery. In this the ID3 and Tesla are the same irrespective of the actual numbers. It's the principle.

A massive brick shaped ICE SUV isn't trying to do this. It's an entirely different design philosophy. Which is why it's pointless to compare ICE and EV in that way.

The market however doesn't want to change habits. It's buying larger and heavier vehicles to drive to the shops. But then we filled our cities with diesels.
 
OspreyO said:
The whole Idea of increasing demand off peak only to feed it back seems like a recipe to increase off peak demand to a point where there is no off peak.
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You are only considering one side of the equation - with reenables on the grid, there will be supply side fluctuation as well as demand side.

Unless there is some dramatic cultural shifts, there will always be an element of demand side management between 4PM and 7PM - don't forget the electrification of space heating is also a thing.

OspreyO said:
Will it not increase overall demand though. Even it the extreme peaks are lower. People will be pulling electricity they don't actually need. That seems counter productive.
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I'm not sure where you are going with this one - battery storage is demand neutral (less return losses of circa 10%), there is only so much battery capacity you can fill, at some point it needs to be used.
 
ICDP said:
A constant requirement below what you can deliver is not a problem, it’s extreme peaks during high demand that causes a problem.

Think of it like a PC with an 750w PSU ticking along at a regular 500w during gaming, it can cope all day long or for many days without issue. Now have it spike to 800w regularly and it will start causing random reboots, tripping and eventually fail.
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Does the UK have shortage at peak with frequent blackouts? Dunno I'm not in the UK.
 
OspreyO said:
You're getting hung up on the numbers. All I'm saying is clean sheet EV designs are trying reduce weight to get more out of the battery. In this the ID3 and Tesla are the same irrespective of the actual numbers. It's the principle.

A massive brick shaped ICE SUV isn't trying to do this. It's an entirely different design philosophy. Which is why it's pointless to compare ICE and EV in that way.

The market however doesn't want to change habits. It's buying larger and heavier vehicles to drive to the shops. But then we filled our cities with diesels.
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And both heavier than an ICE. What’s brick shaped
OspreyO said:
You're getting hung up on the numbers. All I'm saying is clean sheet EV designs are trying reduce weight to get more out of the battery. In this the ID3 and Tesla are the same irrespective of the actual numbers. It's the principle.

A massive brick shaped ICE SUV isn't trying to do this. It's an entirely different design philosophy. Which is why it's pointless to compare ICE and EV in that way.

The market however doesn't want to change habits. It's buying larger and heavier vehicles to drive to the shops. But then we filled our cities with diesels.
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you have gone off topic. What’s SUVs got to do with this.
 
OspreyO said:
Does the UK have shortage at peak with frequent blackouts? Dunno I'm not in the UK.
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No but that it does have is is a huge evening peaks and had to run expensive gas generation to cover it and our energy is priced at the marginal rate meaning for the ~2 hour during the evening peak all electricity costs £lol.

Most people are on flat rate pricing so there is no incentive to not turn on everything you own during that said evening peak as there is no visibility of the 'real' price.
 
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