*** The AMD RDNA 4 Rumour Mill ***

[Steve Bruce]

Yes, but it will have worse RT performance so it really should be cheaper.

Until 3rd party results come out, we don't know anything for sure regard amd but if we look at the 5000 series RT vs the 4000 series RT, the uplift isn't noteworthy.

My point is, I don't think the RT in the AMD is actually going to be much worse this time around (it will be behind, but my guess is not far off)

And if the leaks are true the 9070xt will be a faster card in raster and comparable to the xtx and 4080super which are faster than the 5070ti.

So if the 9070xt is just behind in RT and just in front in raster then imo for people to expect this card to be going for 500 before they'd consider it are being unrealistic and in truth they just don't want to buy amd. (which is perfectly fine).

We should also all remind ourselves to stop. Comparing the price to a 5070ti card at £750, they don't exist, it's much more expensive than that.

 

[Game]

The interesting thing though it has the same number of shaders as an RX7800XT and not much more bandwidth. It really is an RX7800XT replacement.Even the total die size is similar to the RX6700XT and RX7800XT cards.

The performance jump per CU is huge if the leaked performance figures are true,as is the bandwidth efficiency - a higher end card based on the same design might have performed very well. It does make me wonder whether the performance of the PS5 PRO over time will look better.

I want it to replace my 6700xt so anything better than a 7900 gre is amazing but again if the price is right

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Waits for hype train to be derailed as AMD decides to charge more than people want.

More than £500.01!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yes, but it will have worse RT performance so it really should be cheaper.

That ain't stopped AMD before! Don't underestimate their ability to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory!

 

[ICDP]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH you seem to be slowly coming round to the same conclusions I have. That it is naive to expect AMD to act like Nvidia don’t exist with their RDNA4 plans. With logic like what you perfectly countered above on show, you can see what AMD face. Even if they were to offer significantly better price/perf over Nvidia, you get people who would find a reason to say “not good enough”.

So AMD tried and failed in past to attract those types of “enthusiasts”. Realistically if AMD offer 5070Ti like performance for $150 less then that’s going to attract a lot of attention.

A few months back I thought these would be the 7800 XT and 7900 GRE replacements. Instead it looks like they are a tier up from that. So $500 for the 9070 and $600 (or $650 if they are real street prices) for the 9070XT is where AMD can make a difference to their market share. People like the poster you replied to will always find a reason why AMD aren’t good enough.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH you seem to be slowly coming round to the same conclusions I have. That it is naive to expect AMD to act like Nvidia don’t exist with their RDNA4 plans. With logic like what you perfectly countered above on show, you can see what AMD face. Even if they were to offer significantly better price/perf over Nvidia, you get people who would find a reason to say “not good enough”.

So AMD tried and failed in past to attract those types of “enthusiasts”. Realistically if AMD offer 5070Ti like performance for $150 less then that’s going to attract a lot of attention.

A few months back I thought these would be the 7800 XT and 7900 GRE replacements. Instead out looks like they are a tier up from that. So $500 for the 9070 and $600 for the 9070XT is where AMD can make a difference to their market share. People like the poster you replied to will always find a reason why AMD aren’t good enough.

I don't mind cheaper as I am a cheapskate! But for me I always wanted around RX7900XT level performance at £480 to £500 because it would be a 25% to 30% progression over an RX7800XT. Now if AMD gets close to that,I will get one. Say if it ends up being £600 for that level of performance,I probably won't bother and neither will I bother with an RTX5070 at that price.

 

[Game]

The AMD leak shows the 9070Ti trading blows with a 5070Ti in raster and marginally slower in RT. Or if you want to cherry pick the most extreme RT low score, it’s about 16% slower in heavy RT (CP2077). Incidentally that’s about on par with a 4070Ti Super or 3090Ti in heavy RT in a game optimised for Nvidia and means the 9070XT RT has closed the gap significantly in heavy RT. I’ve removed the FC6 anomaly for RT averages as it heavily favours AMD here. These are also AMD numbers so could be best case scenario but (and it’s a big but) these are not marketing slides which tend to be BS.

Let’s see where the 9070/XT pricing and availability looks like before we get an idea of its direct performance competition.

Ideally the 9070XT is priced to compete with (or slightly above) the 5070. It will destroy it in raster and be overall better in RT and even heavy RT games won’t favour the 5070.

At this point we have an idea of performance and it looks very good to be fair. Now pricing and availability is key.

your right

maybe its time for the others to stop going on about the 5070ti and leave this thread by all reports the 5070ti is not even the card its competing with

 

[harmattan]

I mean I don't mind cheaper as I am a cheapskate! But for me I always wanted around RX7900XT level performance at £480 to £500 because it would be a 25% to 30% progression over an RX7800XT. Now if AMD gets close to that,I will get one. Say if it ends up being £600 for that level of performance,I probably won't bother and neither will I bother with an RTX5070 at that price.

I'm pretty certain AMD isn't focused on matching historical gen-on-gen price/performance numbers in determining pricing this round. What they will be looking at, and only looking at, is how the price fits in the current market. Considering this, I think a 30% improvement is highly optimistic: more like 15-20% which means £650-700 RRP (£750-850 retail) for 9070xt. No way, no way we will we see 7900xt performance for sub-£500 prices in this environment.

 

[ICDP]

I mean I don't mind cheaper as I am a cheapskate! But for me I always wanted around RX7900XT level performance at £480 to £500 because it would be a 25% to 30% progression over an RX7800XT. Now if AMD gets close to that,I will get one. Say if it ends up being £600 for that level of performance,I probably won't bother and neither will I bother with an RTX5070 at that price.

Yeah, I’m with you on that pricing score. I think from my perspective I expected that uplift from the XT variant, but it seems the vanilla version is actually close. So we get a 7900XT raster and 4070 Super RT and hopefully about £500.

That’s substantially better than what Nvidia are offering with the even more expensive 5070.

 

[ICDP]

I'm pretty certain AMD isn't focused on matching historical gen-on-gen price/performance numbers in determining pricing this round. What they will be looking at, and only looking at, is how the price fits in the current market. Considering this, I think a 30% improvement is highly optimistic: more like 15-20% which means £650-700 RRP (£750-850 retail) for 9070xt. No way, no way we will we see 7900xt performance for sub-£500 prices in this environment.

But a few month back we were expecting 7900 XT like performance for that price. If (and I stress of) the leaks are accurate the vanilla 9070 offers that and will be priced competitively with the 5070. Let’s see what actual street prices end up.

 

[Murphy]

Which production issue did Nvidia have?

None as far as I'm aware, how would they have production issues when they're not the ones producing anything? Like i said TSMC produce the dies for them and IIRC Foxcon produce the PCB's and coolers.

I don't think that's a TSMC issue

They manufacture the dies so if some of those are defective then who else is responsible? It was Nvidia's choice whether to use defective dies on cards but if TSMC told Nvidia they would supply them with, for example, 100k fully working GB202-400 in the first Qtr of 2025 and they only managed to supply a third of that's on TSMC.

I have to ask did you read what i said before you responded?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I'm pretty certain AMD isn't focused on matching historical gen-on-gen price/performance numbers in determining pricing this round. What they will be looking at, and only looking at, is how the price fits in the current market. Considering this, I think a 30% improvement is highly optimistic: more like 15-20% which means £650-700 RRP (£750-850 retail) for 9070xt. No way, no way we will we see 7900xt performance for sub-£500 prices in this environment.

Well I won't be buying then! It's coming up to Spring and Summer so I can wait.

Yeah, I’m with you on that pricing score. I think from my perspective I expected that uplift from the XT variant, but it seems the vanilla version is actually close. So we get a 7900XT raster and 4070 Super RT and hopefully about £500.

That’s substantially better than what Nvidia are offering with the even more expensive 5070.

If the numbers are not AMD fibbing,then the pricing will make or break the RX9000 series.

 

[Jono8]

your right

maybe its time for the others to stop going on about the 5070ti and leave this thread by all reports the 5070ti is not even the card its competing with

Until we know the price, we don't know what it is competing with, so it's fair game to speculate.

 

[santa]

Can everyone decide that nvidia is the **** please so that I might be able to get a 9070XT once AMD's reduced the price 3 weeks after launch? Thanks.

In all seriousness though, expecting AMD to price in a consumer-friendly way is dreaming. Consumer dGPU is not the most profitable market for them (not even within GPU's, ignoring that CPU is strong and competes for allocation). There's no incentive to make many. So why wouldn't they only sell them at high prices to those with deep wallets? They get nothing but fleeting goodwill from decent pricing, followed swiftly by accusations of paper launch.

AMD have incentive to stay in the GPU market, the consumer GPU market even, not because of consumer dGPU but because iGPU's are important for the CPU's (handhelds are a growing offshoot of that) and the console market is a thing. They need competitive designs, but unfortunately for us they don't need to sell them as cards to plebs. CDNA might help us a little, if they pull a zen we might get more dies than we otherwise would have thanks to getting the dreg bins that didn't make the cut for HPC. But that's not this generation (is it confirmed that CDNA follows RDNA4? 2027 maybe).

edit: **** is censored? Really. Can't I sneak even a single tit in?

 

[harmattan]

None as far as I'm aware, how would they have production issues when they're not the ones producing anything? Like i said TSMC produce the dies for them and IIRC Foxcon produce the PCB's and coolers.

They manufacture the dies so if some of those are defective then who else is responsible? It was Nvidia's choice whether to use defective dies on cards but if TSMC told Nvidia they would supply them with, for example, 100k fully working GB202-400 in the first Qtr of 2025 and they only managed to supply a third of that's on TSMC.

I have to ask did you read what i said before you responded?

The issue no doubt originated with TSMC (nV didn't just magic up fab machines to disable ROPs). But the blame also lies squarely with nV who undoubtably saw thew issue.

As I stated in another thread, the most likely scenario here by leaps and bounds is nV knew about the issue and let the chips go to AIBs. What I can't decide is whether the AIBs missed the missing/non-functional ROPs in their QCs, or they also knew about it and chose to ship (on their own accord or under instruction from nV).

A conspiracy-minded person might even postulated TSMC told nV they had a number of defective dies with non-functional ROPs, nV instructed to still fournish them, then nV passed the chips to AIBs telling them to package them up for distribution.

 

[Game]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH .

A few months back I thought these would be the 7800 XT and 7900 GRE replacements. Instead it looks like they are a tier up from that. So $500 for the 9070 and $600 (or $650 if they are real street prices) for the 9070XT is where AMD can make a difference to their market share. People like the poster you replied to will always find a reason why AMD aren’t good enough.

well a gen on gen increase is back to the norm thank god

 

[Game]

Until we know the price, we don't know what it is competing with, so it's fair game to speculate.

true

 

[Jono8]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH you seem to be slowly coming round to the same conclusions I have. That it is naive to expect AMD to act like Nvidia don’t exist with their RDNA4 plans. With logic like what you perfectly countered above on show, you can see what AMD face. Even if they were to offer significantly better price/perf over Nvidia, you get people who would find a reason to say “not good enough”.

So AMD tried and failed in past to attract those types of “enthusiasts”. Realistically if AMD offer 5070Ti like performance for $150 less then that’s going to attract a lot of attention.

A few months back I thought these would be the 7800 XT and 7900 GRE replacements. Instead it looks like they are a tier up from that. So $500 for the 9070 and $600 (or $650 if they are real street prices) for the 9070XT is where AMD can make a difference to their market share. People like the poster you replied to will always find a reason why AMD aren’t good enough.

Its not about that at all. I've stated that under £600 the 9070XT would be a great card to get. If they can start it at £550 then it makes the 5070ti look like terrible value.

Its all about price at this stage. If i am able to get a 9070XT for not much more than £500 in some sort of deal/offer in a few months time i may seriously consider upgrading to one from my 4070 to try it.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I don't mind cheaper as I am a cheapskate! But for me I always wanted around RX7900XT level performance at £480 to £500 because it would be a 25% to 30% progression over an RX7800XT. Now if AMD gets close to that,I will get one. Say if it ends up being £600 for that level of performance,I probably won't bother and neither will I bother with an RTX5070 at that price.

The 7900XT in raster is the sweet spot for most displays, I'm not factoring in the 4k 240hz here as that is ultra high end tbh. Being on a 3090 though its not a worthwhile shift but to people on lower specced cards its maybe an upgrade. So the 9070XT looks like its actually good on performance which a little while back was the stuff of fairy-tale lets be honest. Now we have seen the outcome of the 50 series numbers its nowhere near as bad as it was predicted. I cant see the 5070 being as strong as previous gens but until we see the msrp now its an unbelievable position AMD finds themselves in here.

 

[Murphy]

The issue no doubt originated with TSMC (nV didn't just magic up fab machines to disable ROPs). But the blame also lies squarely with nV who undoubtably saw thew issue.

Oh totally, as i made clear it was Nvidia's decision not to delay the launch and it was Nvidia's decision to just YOLO it by using dies that were not up to spec in an attempt bolster the good awful stock situation.

What I can't decide is whether the AIBs missed the missing/non-functional ROPs in their QCs, or they also knew about it and chose to ship (on their own accord or under instruction from nV).

My money would be on the latter because from what i hear AIBs do a full suite of tests on completed cards before they're boxed and AIBs don't do anything without say so from Nvidia.