Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Pyr0m@nI@]{]

I used to pay up to £150 a month on electricity before getting solar.
I don't think my electricity bills have been over £50 since and during the brighter months, the bills are negative.

 

[DJMK4]

So on my own, when im hardly at home,

at the moment with octopus my electric is £40.86 and my gas is £9.23

I pay £50 DD

My credit on the account is £19.21

 

[Richie]

Having the green taxes on elec and not gas doesn't help, so fix that for starters.

Not sure how to fix that. The reason it is on Elec and not Gas is because everyone has ELec so it is shared out to all households whereas not everyone has gas. The only real fix I can see is to make it a seperate charge on its own or abolish it altogether.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Not sure how to fix that. The reason it is on Elec and not Gas is because everyone has ELec so it is shared out to all households whereas not everyone has gas. The only real fix I can see is to make it a seperate charge on its own or abolish it altogether.

For starters it should be on both. So domestic gas have green taxes applied as well as elec.
Elec needs to be balanced a bit better based on how the carbon footprint is generated.

Eg if you went to an energy company that was self investing in green, and was generating a lot of green power then they should be able to charge lower green levy than one that was the opposite.

It would help with the people who say stuff like its not green as we have to build a whole 3x more gas plants etc.

It would ideally be based on TOU as well. So those units people are using from 4-7pm should have a higher green levy than the ones at lunchtime (yes lunchtime demand does drop)

It would be baby steps to helping to encourage the positive behaviours.

Or we stop calling them green levies, rebrand them as domestic production expansion levies and apply them to all energy forms.

 

[Richie]

Off the back of this thread, I went to the Octopus site for Heatpump and Solar just for my own curiosity.

• Heatpump-
  • cant quote as not installing in my area.
  • My Home and Gas boiler is 7 years old now and consumption is just under 3,000kWh.
  • I assume I would need an HW Cylinder install (just COmbi for now) as well as radiator upgrades.
  • I am not sure if I would require pipework mods?
• Solar-
  • Current Annual Usage is 1,400kWh
  • Works out at roughly £25/month for units only @ 22p/kWh (removed the SC as I would still have to pay this)
  • For a 6 panel install and 5kWh Battery, it would be £9,300 (from Octopus site)
  • Octopus says - Typical Saving of 78%-94% so, midpoint of 86% would give saving of £21/month
  • Going by that, it would be 37 years ROI? (have I got that wrong? ) - I appreciate elec will only go up but still....
  • For Solar only - £6,700 = 27 years ROI?

I am not sure what grants etc I have access to (full time employment, no benefits, no vulnerable people etc) so may be less?

EDIT: I haven't factored in Export though so not sure how much to take this into account (Roof is standard pitched, Directly South Facing and no trees or anything to get in the way - completely open)

 

[platypus]

Octopus do verge on the expensive side, but I get that people want peace of mind that a supplier fitted system will work with their tariffs and what have you. You could get a bigger system installed for less around here.

 

[tamzzy]

For a 6 panel install and 5kWh Battery, it would be £9,300 (from Octopus site)

That's *very* expensive. My system cost £8.3k last year.
10 panels (4.4kwp) + 3.6kw inverter + 10kwh battery

Its cheaper this year. My friend just installed a similar system to mine for £7.8k (£500 cheaper)

 

[SDK^]

Sure after you spend 5 figures initially and wait years to break even lol

Or you could invest that cash and double it in that time...

Sure after you spend 5 figures initially and wait years to break even lol

Or you could invest that cash and double it in that time...

Most don't spend the '5 figures' up front though - it's a monthly payment
e.g. For 9 months of the year, the monthly loan payment (nothing linked to my house or roof) for my solar, battery storage and diverter is less than the monthly energy cost I would need to pay if I didn't have it So i'm saving about 20% on energy costs, and investing into a future about 5-6 years away, where i'm not handing over money to 'greedy' energy producers, for 25+ years

Solar might not work for you, with your 2 people household using little energy, but for many it does.
Blanket posting it saves 'a couple of £100 a year' is simply showing a lack of knowledge. I'm saving around £1.5k per year (3 years in now). The savings (for us) on not needing to use gas to heat water, from March to October is quite significant.

 

[Richie]

That's *very* expensive. My system cost £8.3k last year.
10 panels (4.4kwp) + 3.6kw inverter + 10kwh battery

Its cheaper this year. My friend just installed a similar system to mine for £7.8k (£500 cheaper)

TBH, I used the Octopus site to get the "quote". All the others I find online want your details to email you a quote... ANd then pester the **** out of forever more

Still, even at lower pricing of around £6k for solar/battery, it would be around 15-20 years ROI I would imagine?

Whats the average lifespan of panels and rough costs for replacement panels only?

 

[200sols]

TBH, I used the Octopus site to get the "quote". All the others I find online want your details to email you a quote... ANd then pester the **** out of forever more

Still, even at lower pricing of around £6k for solar/battery, it would be around 15-20 years ROI I would imagine?

Whats the average lifespan of panels and rough costs for replacement panels only?

I'm not sure a battery would make sense with your use really. Also Octopus are very expensive for solar install and to be fair there will be exceptions to what has been said re solar returns. You are such a low user that you have little to save in the grand scheme of things.

FYI my installer was doing 10 panel systems for just over £4k, say on your south facing roof that generates 4000kWh a year and you exported it all at 15p. That is £600, ROI is is quicker than 10 years?

However, being such a low user you are dependent on export rates not going lower.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Off the back of this thread, I went to the Octopus site for Heatpump and Solar just for my own curiosity.

• Heatpump-
  • cant quote as not installing in my area.
  • My Home and Gas boiler is 7 years old now and consumption is just under 3,000kWh.
  • I assume I would need an HW Cylinder install (just COmbi for now) as well as radiator upgrades.
  • I am not sure if I would require pipework mods?
• Solar-
  • Current Annual Usage is 1,400kWh
  • Works out at roughly £25/month for units only @ 22p/kWh (removed the SC as I would still have to pay this)
  • For a 6 panel install and 5kWh Battery, it would be £9,300 (from Octopus site)
  • Octopus says - Typical Saving of 78%-94% so, midpoint of 86% would give saving of £21/month
  • Going by that, it would be 37 years ROI? (have I got that wrong? ) - I appreciate elec will only go up but still....
  • For Solar only - £6,700 = 27 years ROI?

I am not sure what grants etc I have access to (full time employment, no benefits, no vulnerable people etc) so may be less?

EDIT: I haven't factored in Export though so not sure how much to take this into account (Roof is standard pitched, Directly South Facing and no trees or anything to get in the way - completely open)

I respect octopus as a company massively....... but that said they are incredibly uncompetitive WRT solar installs.... if you are genuinely interested it is worth seeing if the Solar Together scheme is operating in your area and if it isnt register your interest. That should save you a 3 figure number.. Failing that get a number of quotes, make sure they are like for like but there can be huge variance in quotes.

to give you an idea, my parents have a bigger system than your quote installed 8 months ago (9x440w panels (30 year warranty) and a 10kwh battery with a 10 year warranty) and that was £8000 with bird proofing, and even that i was not convinced was a great price. You would not need that much battery, and indeed your use is incredibly low (even before an EV i used 3x that)

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

TBH, I used the Octopus site to get the "quote". All the others I find online want your details to email you a quote... ANd then pester the **** out of forever more

Still, even at lower pricing of around £6k for solar/battery, it would be around 15-20 years ROI I would imagine?

Whats the average lifespan of panels and rough costs for replacement panels only?

Better in the solar thread but panels your looking at like 40 years, a lifetime basically.
The inverter (thing that converts the DC to AC and vice versa) is most likely to fail.

As 200 says as I see he replied already, your such low usage your a fringe case for solar.
The main benefit of solar is generating in effect cheap units, the main benefit of batteries is using cheap units (generated or purchased) when your not generating solar.

You would be massively at risk in regards export pricing if you went for solar.

Its very rare that going over 100% of battery capacity vs daily usage makes any sense, and even a 5kwh in theory does so for you.

 

[Richie]

However, being such a low user you are dependent on export rates not going lower.

As 200 says as I see he replied already, your such low usage your a fringe case for solar.

Yeah that is true and I realise I am an outlier with regards to usage. I'd imagine the same goes for swapping to a Heat Pump having a long ROI or not really saving me money given my low usage on Gas of just under 3,000kWh

 

[bigmike20vt]

when you need to replace your boiler, a heat pump may work if you have decent insulation... partly because of the gas standing charge you will save

indeed once you have a heat pump and presumably a water tank for hot water then that may then help the equation for solar as well.
replacing a perfectly good boiler however is a pretty hard sell imo and is the problem I have

 

[tamzzy]

Still, even at lower pricing of around £6k for solar/battery, it would be around 15-20 years ROI I would imagine?

How much leccy do you use and what is the expected pv production? Edit: just saw you said 1400kwh. This puts you in the same ballpark usage as myself
I'm also a low user myself (120-160kwh per month)
My ROI is still approx 9 years

 

[SDK^]

The UK renewable generation is doing it’s stuff today - lots of wind and sun

The electricity price is now -£9 MWh !

 

[Gazanimal]

Just had a Collective Energy Switch offer from my local council that will save me money over the current tariff I'm on with Octopus after I had to leave the Tracker. (I'll probably switch back to it at some point)

• Octopus 16M Fixed Feb 2025 v1:
  
• Electric: 23.84p/kWh - 66.26p/day
• Gas: 6.31p/kWh - 29.67p/day

• British Gas Spring Community Saver
  
• Electric: 22.6p/kWh - 53.91p/day
• Gas: 5.89p/kWh - 22.65p/day

Only other difference is the £30 per fuel Exit Fee with the British Gas offer, but overall a better deal.

 

[Aurhinius]

I am still against heat pumps at the moment. You can't expect people to pay more for something just because. I get it's better for the environment but it shouldn't cost more and then pretty much every installation I have seen involves a large amount of space and tanks which you may not have if you are using a combi boiler like I do.

It's about as well thought out as EV's taking the country by storm. Great idea, poor implementation.

I've got a hybrid and around here I'm cheaper buying a tank of petrol than charging at a public charger granted that's fag packet maths but I doubt I am far off.

 

[Nasher]

I am still against heat pumps at the moment. You can't expect people to pay more for something just because. I get it's better for the environment but it shouldn't cost more and then pretty much every installation I have seen involves a large amount of space and tanks which you may not have if you are using a combi boiler like I do.

It's about as well thought out as EV's taking the country by storm. Great idea, poor implementation.

I've got a hybrid and around here I'm cheaper buying a tank of petrol than charging at a public charger granted that's fag packet maths but I doubt I am far off.

Yea, old houses had space for a tank (most likely now a large cupboard). But 2 bedroom new builds or flats... good luck. You might not even have enough space outside to be able to get planning permission for one.

If it wasn't for government subsidies, which will end at some point, the price would be extortionate.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Yea, old houses had space for a tank (most likely now a large cupboard). But 2 bedroom new builds or flats... good luck. You might not even have enough space outside to be able to get planning permission for one.

If it wasn't for government subsidies, which will end at some point, the price would be extortionate.

The irony is that 2 bed new build will be optimised for heat pumps, heaven forbid they put in an airing cupboard like they did with older small 2 bed houses. If they were really adventurous they could put the tank in the life like we did ‘back in the day’ and save the space inside the property. The outside unit for a 2 bed new build will be tiny, the heat loss will probably be sub 3kw.

The install costs will not be materially more than a gas boiler in a new build. Actually no, it will probably be materially cheaper as they don’t need to install a gas supply to the property or the development as a whole. It will be cheaper to run and there is no gas standing charge.

While they are there, solar panels are actually cheaper than roof tiles per square meter, the cost to install is marginal when you have a team of sparks and roofers on site already with scaffolding in place as you’d need it to build the house anyway.