Whole house audio - Chromecast alternative or something else

TechMinerUK

TechMinerUK

TechMinerUK

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Hey all,

Apologies if this has been asked before or it isn't the right place but I can't find an up to date answer for what I am looking for so I am hoping someone may be able to help me :)

A while ago I bought a load of Nest Audios, Google Homes and Chromecast Audios to rig up in the house and in the garage to a receiver that runs two sets of outdoor speakers.

Overall, the system works really well and allows the devices to be grouped into multiple groups which can seemlessly play audio without delays. My only gripe with it is that if the internet goes out then due to the way Chromecast stuff works you can't cast to the groups and all the devices disconnect from the WiFi even though most media we stream to the is local from an Emby server.

Recently I've been thinking about expanding them however I would like to move towards a system that supports a "fully local" setup as whilst our internet doesn't go off often it's kind of annoying that it kills the home audio if/when it does.

Likewise Chromecast Audios were discontinued a while ago and getting a hold of the left over ones means paying 4-6x the price they were sold at for something which Google might decide to bin off in a few years time.

I've had a look at a few systems such as Sonos, WiiM etc but all seem to have pros/cons that are less balanced than the used CCAs. Ideally I would like to have a system that can work with the following:
  • Stream audio from phones/PCs
  • Stream from Emby or SMB shares
  • Support multiple audio groups
  • Be able to connect to a seperate amp/receiver/speakers
  • Possibly have their own speakers (For smaller rooms)
  • Connect to Home Assistant to manage volume levels
So far I have found the following options:
  • WiiM - Works similar to CCA and supports casting however unsure if this will have the same issue of needing to be online all the time, fairly pricey but not obtusely expensive, unsure how volume levels are managed
  • Wired speakers - Seems to be the most agnostic solution since you can just swap out the central receiver but a massive pain in the butt to run cables to all ends of the house, relies on having decent seperate speakers and a central app, also unsure on how volume levels would be managed remotely
  • Sonos - Has its own casting system and doesn't support Google Cast, can use receiver units or IKEA/Sonos speakers, can work offline, quite expensive but the most well known, eco system which is pretty locked down
  • Snapcast - Uses Raspberri Pi and some addon boards, vendor agnositc and just needs connecting to a seperate amp, looks to be the cheaper of the options but potentially very faffy to setup and maintain
Anyone who has had similar ideas before or setups I'd be interested to know your thoughts and what you ended up doing :)
 
There's Wiim amp, you then add stereo speakers. Or if you don't want the amp, wiim pro plus or ultra when it's out. You have a fairly specific use of audio. They will stream from your NAS server no problem.

Wiim Pro Plus has BT receiver so you can transmit from your phone to the PP

I just use Squeezeboxes with Pi5 as a LMS server, that works well. Plus with Softsqueeze it's one I'd get .

I wouldn't touch Sonos.

For each room need to decide what audio system you want. Single active speaker? Ceiling speaker? Bookshelf passive speakers? Small sub/sat system? Bookshelf active speakers? Hifi? Home theatre? etc.
 
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hornetstinger said:
There's Wiim amp, you then add stereo speakers. Or if you don't want the amp, wiim pro plus or ultra when it's out. You have a fairly specific use of audio. They will stream from your NAS server no problem.

Wiim Pro Plus has BT receiver so you can transmit from your phone to the PP

I just use Squeezeboxes with Pi5 as a LMS server, that works well. Plus with Softsqueeze it's one I'd get .

I wouldn't touch Sonos.

For each room need to decide what audio system you want. Single active speaker? Ceiling speaker? Bookshelf passive speakers? Small sub/sat system? Bookshelf active speakers? Hifi? Home theatre? etc.
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Thank you for the info :)

Generally speaking the rooms will be:

3x Single active speaker
1x Hi-Fi or Bookshelf active speakers
2x Hi-Fi/Outdoor Amp (Outdoor speakers connected to amps)

The WiiM amps look good but definitely pricey

For the RPis and Squeeze how do you have it setup, do you have it behind an amp etc? :)
 
You could get three Wiim minis for the active speakers, Velcro stick them to the back of the speaker hidden away and have a decent streamer/active speaker
For Hifi if you are using analogue out of the media player, get pro plus or ultra
You'd be looking for weatherproof speakers, and suitable cabling for outdoors use

Need to figure what for Hifi, budget, speaker brand and type etc.

Wiim amp has built in subwoofer integration, high pass so for a 2.1 system it's pretty good, and for the price it's a bargain. It's not pricey haha. Wiims will be getting room EQ in the future, and they even have PEQ so get a lot for your money.

Raspberry Pi5 has pircoreplayer installed that has LMS (that's a music database scanner) Music on my NAS, and each room has Squeezebox Touch/classic/radio
 
hornetstinger said:
You could get three Wiim minis for the active speakers, Velcro stick them to the back of the speaker hidden away and have a decent streamer/active speaker
For Hifi if you are using analogue out of the media player, get pro plus or ultra
You'd be looking for weatherproof speakers, and suitable cabling for outdoors use

Need to figure what for Hifi, budget, speaker brand and type etc.

Wiim amp has built in subwoofer integration, high pass so for a 2.1 system it's pretty good, and for the price it's a bargain. It's not pricey haha. Wiims will be getting room EQ in the future, and they even have PEQ so get a lot for your money.

Raspberry Pi5 has pircoreplayer installed that has LMS (that's a music database scanner) Music on my NAS, and each room has Squeezebox Touch/classic/radio
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I see :)

You are right, it looks like I need to see what speakers I want as this could get pricey haha, I like the idea of the minis on the back of the active speakers then the pro units for inside the garage.

I guess the search is on for decent speakers now as for the single rooms I'm trying to keep it to under £100ish but I might have to up that for decent ones :)
 
Decent speakers cost more than £100. You're not going to get anything under £100 they'll be speaker shaped objects.

I'd say something like a acoustics 3020i or wharfedale diamond 9.1 that sort of thing as a starter budget speaker. For main room want a sub with those standmounts plus stands. Standmounts might not provide enough bass in a larger room. Speaker and RCA cable. Coaxial/optical cable from wiim to your amp if it has that connection otherwise be stereo RCA.

Good towers somewhere close to £1000. I'd avoid cheap towers, instead get standmounts as you'll get better quality for your money.

I'd set aside a couple of thousand for your whole system..
Rather than expect to get everything for contents of a Yorkshire man's wallet
 
hornetstinger said:
Decent speakers cost more than £100. You're not going to get anything under £100 they'll be speaker shaped objects.

I'd say something like a acoustics 3020i or wharfedale diamond 9.1 that sort of thing as a starter budget speaker. For main room want a sub with those standmounts plus stands. Standmounts might not provide enough bass in a larger room. Speaker and RCA cable. Coaxial/optical cable from wiim to your amp if it has that connection otherwise be stereo RCA.

Good towers somewhere close to £1000. I'd avoid cheap towers, instead get standmounts as you'll get better quality for your money.

I'd set aside a couple of thousand for your whole system..
Rather than expect to get everything for contents of a Yorkshire man's wallet
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It looks like this is going to be a long project but you are right it looks like if I want something that sounds decent I'll have to save up for it!

The 3020i units look decent so I might start with a pair of them and see how they sound. :)
 
Best have a demo of a few speaker brands to get idea of sound signature you like. Same for amplifiers as well. Go to a few hifi and AV shops

I wouldn't recommend bright speakers they may grab your attention in demo but over time you'll tire of them.

I've owned quite a few brands over the years. Butter are probably 100 speakers brands so way short of that. Going to hifi and AV trade shows will help as you can demo dozens of speakers in day.
 
TechMinerUK said:
It looks like this is going to be a long project but you are right it looks like if I want something that sounds decent I'll have to save up for it!

The 3020i units look decent so I might start with a pair of them and see how they sound. :)
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I think going for components, like you're doing, is a good shout. If you were to buy a load of Sonos speakers, then you're absolutely hoping that they'll stay working / supported etc. Whereas if you buy decent speakers, and a decent amp, you can then buy a decent streamer-device (looks like the Wiim stuff might well do, although I've no experience of it personally). If you later discover that some new streaming system is out which works better, you don't have to chuck away the investments you've made into speakers and amplifiers - particularly if you've (perhaps?) invested in in-ceiling speakers or similar.

EDIT: Also, definitely check out secondhand stuff (here, avforums, etc). A lot of home audio gear falls into the camp of "working" or "not" in my experience; older hifi separates can often be picked up quite cheaply. Similarly, for rooms which you don't care about, little Class D amplifiers can be remarkably punchy for their small size; look for the Lepy LP-2020A as an example of such a thing. These can easily be concealed away - and they run fairly cool too, even at higher volume settings, which might be useful. Could be worth starting with a few of these, and then making strategic upgrades for the rooms where the audio quality matters more.
 
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The following is my experience of the Wiim Pro

The Wiim has great software support and I find it's android app very good.

If you require a DAC get the Wiim Pro Plus. The DAC in the Wiim Pro is low quality, I expect DAC in Wiim mini will be similar low quality. The lower quality DAC's in the Pro and mini might be ok if it's just background music, but not serious listening.

The Wiim also sounds worse on WiFi, ethernet is better. I disable WiFi on mine. I'm using galvanically isolated ethernet also. Wiim's own help guides say it's WiFi can cause interference and to switch to ethernet if that's the case.

The key thing with the Wiim Pro and Plus, is there cheap devices, so they ship with a cheap PSU to keep cost down, cheap plastic case so poor shielding and poor RFI filtering. I'm currently running a iFi IPower2 on mine.

I use a Wiim Pro optically connected into the DAC inside a Yamaha CD-S2100, it's honestly audiophile grade but I've had to work around it's limitations.
 
Apologies as I know this is a thread revival and a half however I thought it would be better to revive this one than bolt it onto https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...-home-audio-expansion.19001487/#post-37776889 since it's more related to the whole home audio aspect.

After tinkering around and running draw rope/getting cable routes sorted I now have the following ready to go:
  • Cable path to living room book case
  • Cable path to "hallway" ceiling
  • Cable path to bedroom cabinet
  • Cable path to office cabinet
  • Cable path to kitchen ceiling
  • Cable path to bathroom ceiling
Now the bit I am a little bit stuck on here is how to get everything configured as I have the following in my mind at the moment since all the cables are run back to the comms cab at the center of the house:
  • Buy some Pis and set them all up as Snapcast receivers along with some budget amps for now until I can afford better
  • Buy a Wii amp per set of speakers and arrange in the center of the house
  • Buy a multizone receiver such as a Denon HS2 and wire everything up with that

The other bit that I am thinking about now is what speakers to go with for each room, in the bathroom and hallway I'm not particularly concerned with the audio quality so I've gone with some reasonably priced in-ceiling speakers however for the other rooms (Especially the office, kitchen and living room) I'm putting a focus on the audio quality being as good as (Or ideally better) than the Nest Homes (Full fabric ones) that are in place at the moment.

Because of this I have the following in my line of sight however I'm not sure which would fit best and where:
  • Monitor Audio Bronze 50 (Any)
  • Q Acoustic 3010i (Kitchen/Bedroom)
  • Q Acoustic 3020i (Office)
  • Q Acoustic 3030i (Living room)
  • Mission LX1 MK2 (Any)
However I was thinking as I was looking at them, is placement going to be a problem for me here as most of my cable runs come out from the floor upwards with the idea of the speakers being on/in cabinets or on stands (With the exception of the kitchen where they will need to be wall mounted purely due to space).

As it stands a the moment the speakers would be in the following positions:
  • Kitchen - Mounted to wall just under ceiling facing down towards cooking area (One left, one right)
  • Living room - Placed in book shelf facing straight towards door or placed on stands next to dining table or one on the book shelf and the other on a coffee table (The last one I'm not sure will work well)
  • Office - Placed on cabinet facing towards computer monitors or attached to wall just under ceiling facing in same direction (Depending on recommendation)
  • Bedroom - Placed on top of desk facing towards bed
I will state I'm not a huge audiophile, in my ears the Nest Homes sound great so anything that can match that is excellent and anything that can beat that would be spectacular. Likewise since the floors got to come up anyway as part of other renovations going on at the moment (Alongside the pre-existing runs) plus the messing around in the ceiling I'm not opposed to running more cables for things like subwoofers etc.

As last time any help would be super appreciated, including speakers I'm imagining this is all going to cost between £1K to £3K which I've upped substantially from last time I looked at this (Which is easier now that I have the approval of the Mrs) :)
 
3010i are quite big, I have some and they stick out a fair bit, also how steamy/greasy is the kitchen- being MDF and ported means you'll get moisture inside them?

I think a stereo amp/streamer per room (wiim amp/amp pro) would be ideal as it is a streamer and amp is one, is independent from other zones, or can be linked, can be controlled from your phone for one or all zones, has it's own physical volume dial per room, rather than one single 10 channel amp that needs to be on.

with 3010i you're looking at 40cm from wall to furthest edge of speaker when angled down. Maybe on walls or atmos like speakers could be one option (although they generally have poor bass response)

3020i are even deeper, so will stick out even more
 
hornetstinger said:
3010i are quite big, I have some and they stick out a fair bit, also how steamy/greasy is the kitchen- being MDF and ported means you'll get moisture inside them?

I think a stereo amp/streamer per room (wiim amp/amp pro) would be ideal as it is a streamer and amp is one, is independent from other zones, or can be linked, can be controlled from your phone for one or all zones, has it's own physical volume dial per room, rather than one single 10 channel amp that needs to be on.

with 3010i you're looking at 40cm from wall to furthest edge of speaker when angled down. Maybe on walls or atmos like speakers could be one option (although they generally have poor bass response)

3020i are even deeper, so will stick out even more
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Kitchen doesn't get too steamy as it's fairly well ventilated, we've yet to have an issue with any condensation on the cabinets or extractor. In terms of grease I would say it's fairly low as well as it's me who cleans the extractor and it's not been a terrible job each year :D

For the living room and bedroom on the cabinets we have 34cm and 40cm depth available, it sounds like in the kitchen the 3010i's may be too big (Potentially the same for the office as well) so I might need to look at alternatives for those rooms (I definitely want to avoid in ceiling speakers as I've yet to find one that has enough "bass")

Do you know if the Denon Drive HS2 does volume control for each zone as potentially it might work out as a better purchase for the setup for us as the WiiM amps are around £320 per amp. I can do either but just conscious I already have some Heos gear at the moment as our AVR is also a Denon :)
 
Don't have denon

3010i are 24.5cm depth exactly with grilles but once you angle down on the bracket they do stick out. I use them as atnos heights.

Wiim have a streamer which is very good as wiim ultra owner I recommend them. Although I use picoreplayer lms system as dnla /upnp sucks.
 
hornetstinger said:
Don't have denon

3010i are 24.5cm depth exactly with grilles but once you angle down on the bracket they do stick out. I use them as atnos heights.

Wiim have a streamer which is very good as wiim ultra owner I recommend them. Although I use picoreplayer lms system as dnla /upnp sucks.
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3010i's might work in the kitchen and office then (I wish I had them as Atmos ones but I think that would tip my partner over the edge) :D

WiiM I was really hoping I could just play directly to them but our network is a bit unique with where we have everything located, it was bad enough getting "Casting" working over VLANs so adding DLNA into the mix I imagine will be absolute hell :D
 
Wiim amp has inputs so you could use those as well.

Room correction and ability to high pass speakers, integrate a sub also so it's pretty flexible .

I use multi room also . Each room has own streamer.
 
hornetstinger said:
Wiim amp has inputs so you could use those as well.

Room correction and ability to high pass speakers, integrate a sub also so it's pretty flexible .

I use multi room also . Each room has own streamer.
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Fair point, I guess if all else fails with the WiiM built in streamer I can just use the inputs, if you don't mind me asking how have you got your Pi hooked up to the WiiM, do you have a topper for it or are you just using a 3.5mm out to RCA?

How much heat do the WiiMs output as well as I'd like to keep everything in the network cabinet for tidiness and since it will make it easier for me to move to any other systems in the future without needing to pull cable all over again :)
 
hornetstinger said:
Mine is the streamer only. Not sure how hot the amps are

Pi is server only running picoreplayer, so each streamer connects to that

They have vibelink also but that's just an amp not a streamer
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Cool, I'll have a look at ordering one to see how it works, worst case scenario is I sell it on and buy something else. Thank you for the advice! :)
 
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