People literally leave tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds parked in the street every day. A lot of which can be stolen with a laptop!
Austria mass shooting
- Thread starter Bluebozzy
- Start date
People literally leave tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds parked in the street every day. A lot of which can be stolen with a laptop!
A quantity of firearms and ammunition in one place is going to make it a target for a certain type of criminals, so it is going to require much more than a well built room and a strong door.
There was a group doing organised burglaries on retailers a couple of years back or so who were literally doing a Hatton Garden type job on retailers to steal a few grands worth of laptops and phones, I'm surprised it didn't make bigger news, the more retailers tried to stop them the more inventive and effort they went to - even making 4x4x4 foot holes through multilayer walls into secure areas.
Pretty dumb eh? All that value piled up in a tempting heap that cannot possibly be secured against determined thieves.
Meanwhile the guns of members of a club are scattered among ~50-200 gun safes in homes across the county.
Pile them all up and heeeey, that looks like a tempting heap that cannot possibly be secured against determined thieves.
How can a safe not be secured against thieves? Thats kind of the point of a safe!
Mate the pull cash machines out of the walls of banks with heavy machinery and drive off with them.
You are chipping in on discussion on opinion that piling up all the guns of the members of a shooting club and making the club hold them is a better thing.
A safe is not thief proof. It is a deterrent.
Put enough value together and the thieves will turn up with a stolen JCB to rip out your safe and dump it on a stolen flatbed.
But they won't see the same value in trying to get the same number of guns by robbing 50-200 peoples homes.
Ground recessed. Pooled resources are far more effective, that's part of why banks exist!
Assuming an active gun club with a reasonable membership you are going to need a security room and round the clock security to store all the firearms and probably for best practise store the ammunition at a separate site. And that will attract a level of interest from criminal parties which will require more than just a locked room with a strong door and maybe some security company doing 2 hourly checks.
Yup, so don't put the safe on an external wall? Sink it in to the ground.
Constant remote monitoring.
Get back to me just on the financials of how many gunsafes you could have for the cost of an underground vault with 24h monitoring.
Unless the response time is very low that isn't going to be a deterrent.
Soldato
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I am not in the slightest 'vastly over exaggerating' the problem, at all - I've seen several people succumb to cancer & absolutely all of them had horrible mental health problems, the issue is I think you're just thinking of 'general mental health issues' - and the absolute vast majority of these situations are people with other life ending illnesses that are having trouble facing their mortality which creates extreme mental health reactions - I have first hand experience in it unfortunately in witnessing this happen.
It's alarming how no one at all recognises the serious mental challenges that literally change a person when they get cancer - they either fold, get extreme depression and anxiety or go problematic, violent, angry at anything and everything, bitter hateful to the extremes (which is a problem for many older, particularly white males who are in ok health, let alone cancer sufferers)
50% of people get cancer, its a problem you cannot skirt forever - and in relating to the OP, guns - im glad the UK has relevantly good gun laws, it would be a lot worse if not.
And it's no issue keeping guns at gun ranges, look at banks - simple. Bad actors wouldn't nick guns from vaults anyway they just import them as they do now.
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@Combat squirrel
If you have a firearms license it pops up on your medical record. If you so much as tell the doctor you are a bit depressed they'll tell the firearms licencing guys straight away
It is really closely monitored all that stuff.
If you have a firearms license it pops up on your medical record. If you so much as tell the doctor you are a bit depressed they'll tell the firearms licencing guys straight away
It is really closely monitored all that stuff.
And yet banks exist. Vaults for valuables exist. Mass storage exists.
How not? It takes a significant amount of time to dig down if you want to rip it out as per your last example.
Soldato
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So as soon as someone is diagnosed with cancer, is it the same? I doubt it ? But I do hope so - because the mental strain of the disease is immense & I'd hope the medical / firearms license lists it as instant removal of any weapons.
Not necessarily, it vastly depends on the scenario I guess, I don't pretend to know what the exact criteria is, but I know it is closely monitored.
The kind of organised crime who'll go after firearms in a situation like this can get into secure places far quicker than people might imagine.
I don't know why it never really made the news properly but there was an organised crime gang (actually between 12-18 people not the 6-8 mentioned in the media) who in 22/23 were raiding retailers (hit 20+) - primarily Argos but also a few Currys and other similar retailers and were likely behind several lorry hijackings:
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2023-08-06/gang-cut-through-wall-of-argos-to-steal-25k-worth-of-goods
Quick thinking city folk's vital action praised for Argos burglary arrests
Public vital to battle against burglars as police seek to make contact after Argos raids
www.worcesternews.co.uk
In some cases they went through multiple substantial walls and then into security rooms in minutes - didn't care about alarms as they were gone before the police turned up. They went as far as getting people to go in as Christmas temps to get inside info and a couple were employed by a company used to do store refits.
Point being unless you build a literal fortress you won't deter the kind of people who'd hit a place like that.
There is hugely different consequences as well between guns and valuables being stolen and the ability to afford security between a bank and your average shooting range and community. Sticking a load of guns in one place would become an attractive option to importing - they import now due to limited options.
What I'm referring to when I say you are vastly over exaggerating that problem is the firearm factor in that equation - the number of people who get in such a bad way they will carry out some kind of extreme act is incredibly small, and even smaller number of those would ever own firearms in this country anyway, and a firearm in that equation doesn't suddenly make someone a homicidal maniac who otherwise wouldn't be that way inclined. And once someone gets to that bad a place they will cross the threshold and carry out an extreme act they will do so gun or not in the vast majority of cases - in some fringe cases it might make it easier for them.
50% of people might get cancer but that doesn't mean anything like 50% will develop mental health issues due to that which would make them do something extreme.
I live in a part of the UK with lots of farming, estates, retirees, etc. where a lot of mental health challenges go along with that - sadly especially farming in recent years with the pressures they are under and some questionable government decisions which have literally cost lives. But despite one of the highest levels of firearms ownership in the country incidents involving firearms are extremely rare.
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