Sennheiser HD 6XX VS Hifiman HE400SE for Gaming and mostly EDM listening

The HD650 is good for games, that is my decade long experience of using them in competetive gaming.

The planars that have been released since those years have passed are obviously better for games.

Does that make the HD650 bad for games?

No, which is what you are making them out to be.
 
I understand you have a preference for planer's but planar technically doesn't inherently make them better for gaming, or over that of dynamic drivers in general, it's a preference, no one driver technology wins out across the board, primary it comes down to the tuning and materials used ie, housing/cup design that impacts the acoustics, your problem is you think because it's newer technology it has to be better.

PLANAR WALL OF SOUND RARRRRR!!!!!

The 650's are not only subjectively poor (or ok according to ratings) in staging and imaging but also measure poorly in terms of PRTF accuracy which at the moment is the best quantifiable measurement of soundstage we have right now, where headphone like the HD800S and Arya measure quite a bit better which line up with subjective impressions.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sennheiser/hd-650 - HD650

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https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/hifiman/arya-stealth-magnet-version - Arya


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https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/sennheiser/hd-800-s - HD800S


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Magic ears.

HD800S, is a dynamic driver, smaller than your WALL OF SOUND planar, but it is regarded as one of the best gaming headphones in the world, subjective opinions of the headphone squarely line up with PRTF measurements here, but I know you wasn't a fan of the headphone which is perfectly fine, I'm ok with that, I'm not here to shove my preferences down other people throats.
 
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Rtings don't always get things right, and besides measurements don't dictate what something actually sounds like, with displays that's a different matter but even then rtings measurements don't match up with HWUB findings in an example of OLED burn in, for example. Some of the biggest AV reviewers online have stated that too, that measurements don't dictate sound, as everyone hears things differently, and this is why ASR forums gets laughed at quite often in other communities.

Anyway I've said what was necessary, I found the HD650 perfectly fine for gaming, as did many others and we literally used them for collective decades for that purpose, your measurements may show contrary to personal experience, but that doesn't matter.

And neither have I shoved my view down anyone’s neck, as always, I have just shared my experience , which you can disagree with, but you consistently and in multiple threads keep nitpicking and remarking back to measurements or whatever else which is kind of strange considering you just said you don't mind me having an opinion/preference.

Isn't that what a discussion board is all about, to share experiences and preferences...

The long and short is that I don't care about measurements, I only care about having an awareness of them. What matters more is what my eyes see and my ears hear, and it's that experience I value more than anything, and it seems others do too.

You can call them "magic ears" if you want, but they haven't let me down yet and it's very easy to pick apart sound from something to my ears without having to spend weeks A/Bing and looking at graphs.
 
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"Rtings don't always get things right, and besides measurements don't dictate what something actually sounds like, with displays that's a different matter but even then rtings measurements don't match up with HWUB findings in an example of OLED burn in, for example."

I know Rtings don't always get things right, no site does, the 'controversy' regarding the burn-in just highlighted the challenges of translating lab results into real-world user experiences and the subjective nature of some performance metrics, they do thousands of tests and measurement's so it's going to happen sometimes, their PRTF measurements are well respected and have been consistently on point matching subjective impressions.

"And neither have I shoved my view down anyone’s neck, as always, I have just shared my experience , which you can disagree with, but you consistently and in multiple threads keep nitpicking and remarking back to measurements or whatever else which is kind of strange considering you just said you don't mind me having an opinion/preference.

Isn't that what a discussion board is all about, to share experiences and preferences..."


You go beyond just sharing experiences though by needlessly and regularly including little veiled digs at other components or companies trying to highlight how much better your stuff is all the time, last time it was the framerate of the VU meter on the Audiolab headphone amp, you had to remark how poor it was and how amazing yours is at 60fps! (cue animated GIF), then it was putting down the cost of the Quad amp saying "MQA TAX" trying to make a play that it's overpriced due to that, when I've done extensive research into the extra cost of MQA in components and it's marginal,


"measurements don't dictate what something actually sounds like"

Ummm, they do, if you understand them, it's statements like this which I find unbelievable and I'm not even a massive measurement nerd, it may not always translate well as you also have your own HRTF to contend with which will change the FR also and that is not even delving into psychoacoustics and cognitive bias.

So again, more misinformation, same with R2R vs Delta sigma, same with Planar vs other driver technology, you believe that HD650 are good for gaming even though measurements and majority of users say otherwise, misunderstanding audiophile terminologies, the list goes on and on, and you rarely ever admit being wrong, I can only sit back and read so much over the years, I've been silent for too long.
 
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I'm not going to interject here beyond giving personal impressions of the HD650's, they're one of the first "big" purchases I made in terms of audiophile headphones a couple of decades + ago at this point. I've went through many headphones over the years before settling on my endgame, which I've been happy with for many years now (LCD2 + WA7). Most I've tried or spent time with I've sold on or gifted to friends/family, one of the few cans I've kept around are my trusty old HD650's and the Bottlehead Crack AMP I bought specifically for use with them. It's not often I get them out anymore but I do love the way they sound and there's a sense of nostalgia in there too. For gaming I found them middling at best, better than "gaming headsets" by a mile back when I got them, and probably the majority of those knocking around today for that matter. That said, for positional audio I've always found them underwhelming, and even extremely costly compared to other options on the market, even those from Sennheiser themselves.

The HD650's cost me in the region of £300 back in the day, they were noticeably worse than the HD598's I owned for competitive/positional gaming which came in at all of £90 or so when I bought them. I'd never recommend them for anything other than music, and even then for specific genres, maybe if you had mixed usage with a musical lean they'd be worth going for but otherwise your money is better spent elsewhere for a gaming specific use case.

I've followed MLE's "gaming" impressions for years and more often than not my opinions line up with his, worth a read if you're on the hunt:


That said, I also feel that HD650's require a damned good amp to really shine and I feel many use them on less suitable hardware.
 
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From my experience of the HE4XX/HE400SE/Sundara/Sundara Closed,they really need some degree of amplification to sound OK. But Planar headphones do tend to weigh more than many dynamic driver headphones.

Has nobody mentioned the Aune AR5000? They are perfect for gaming:
1.)Lightweight
2.)Very easy to drive - they will run fine off a decent motherboard audio output or USB dongle like the FiiO JA11
3.)Have fantastic spatial separation
4.)A sound signature reminiscent of a Sennheiser,but less forward vocals and better bass

I wanted something that can do both music and gaming and they seemed to be a good compromise. They are around £280 in the UK,or around £150 excluding VAT during sales from Aliexpress.

I was running them off my DAC and headphone amplifier,but sound good enough plugged into the motherboard for gaming.

If you want to try something Planar - FiiO introduced the FT1 PRO this year. Advanced MP3 Players can have them for under £160 if there is a code available.
 
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From my experience of the HE4XX/HE400SE/Sundara/Sundara Closed,they really need some degree of amplification to sound OK. But Planar headphones do tend to weigh more than many dynamic driver headphones.

Has nobody mentioned the Aune AR5000? They are perfect for gaming:

To be fair I think the OP did raise the question about two specific models (HD6XX & HE400SE), but there are arguably going to be other headphones/sets for gaming; AR5000, TYGR 300R, DT 880/770, PC38X, HD 505/550, R50/30X (minus a missing mic on the 'phones) all sping to mind. The AR5000 has had rave reviews all over, I think the only thing that hurt these in the UK a bit is their lack of availability in certain established retailers. But they could be a great choice.

Re: the HD 6x0 and gaming and I do think there are better options, however having now used a few different models the weaknesses aren't quite as they made out to be. The HD 6x0 have a very strong left/right imaging (that so called '3-blob' although I'm not sure this is the best way to explain it) which can be very useful in certain games (i.e. Counter Strike etc.). They can be enhanced with virtual surround, or 3D audio. I've sat down and used the HD 6XX & 58X with the Division 2 and they are fine. Albeit the PC38X, or TYGR beat them out easily. Indeed they have some qualities that I do like for extended wearing; not fatiguing, very light (264g - under that magical 300g's imo) and are generally very comfortable. The HD 58X are better probably, because of the slight v-shaped profile, but certainly if I could only have one headphone it would arguably be the 6XX/650 becuase of their strengths.
 
To be fair I think the OP did raise the question about two specific models (HD6XX & HE400SE), but there are arguably going to be other headphones/sets for gaming; AR5000, TYGR 300R, DT 880/770, PC38X, HD 505/550, R50/30X (minus a missing mic on the 'phones) all sping to mind. The AR5000 has had rave reviews all over, I think the only thing that hurt these in the UK a bit is their lack of availability in certain established retailers. But they could be a great choice.

Re: the HD 6x0 and gaming and I do think there are better options, however having now used a few different models the weaknesses aren't quite as they made out to be. The HD 6x0 have a very strong left/right imaging (that so called '3-blob' although I'm not sure this is the best way to explain it) which can be very useful in certain games (i.e. Counter Strike etc.). They can be enhanced with virtual surround, or 3D audio. I've sat down and used the HD 6XX & 58X with the Division 2 and they are fine. Albeit the PC38X, or TYGR beat them out easily. Indeed they have some qualities that I do like for extended wearing; not fatiguing, very light (264g - under that magical 300g's imo) and are generally very comfortable. The HD 58X are better probably, because of the slight v-shaped profile, but certainly if I could only have one headphone it would arguably be the 6XX/650 becuase of their strengths.

I bought a pair of AR5000 on a whim and they work very well for gaming - the reviews talk about their expansive soundstage and I tend to agree. They won't have the sub-bass a Planar will have,but the fact they will run easily off a motherboard output or el-cheap dongle is also a plus. I got my pair from Elise Audio,although Aune have a EU store:

Amazon USA also sell them.
 
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