Junior Doctors Strikes

Infidelus said:
Absolute tosh. I've worked for both the NHS and private practices and I don't have an iota of sympathy for doctors, junior or otherwise. Once they are fully trained and actually have some work experience their salaries are way higher than I will ever earn, by a magnitude of 200% minimum. They may only start on ~£35,000 but in 10 years most of them will likely be on double that, especially if they enter private practice, and if they can't live happily and retire on that kind of salary then they're definitely doing something wrong!
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Well I not sure what you do, so suggesting they don't deserve more than you depends on what your job is.
I remember 20 years ago a manager said to me £50k is the min to live in London anything else and you can't have a good life.

£70k wage in London is really not that great of a wage,. £70k should be the average London wage by now.

I really feel for those who earn £35k, because that type of wage just keeps your head above water. I believe you can't live or have a life in London with a £35k wage.
 
Infidelus said:
Absolute tosh. I've worked for both the NHS and private practices and I don't have an iota of sympathy for doctors, junior or otherwise. Once they are fully trained and actually have some work experience their salaries are way higher than I will ever earn, by a magnitude of 200% minimum. They may only start on ~£35,000 but in 10 years most of them will likely be on double that, especially if they enter private practice, and if they can't live happily and retire on that kind of salary then they're definitely doing something wrong!
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My doctor doesn't even work in the afternoons asked for an appointment then "oh no she only works mornings". Clearly not desperate for cash.
 
Blackjack Davy said:
My doctor doesn't even work in the afternoons asked for an appointment then "oh no she only works mornings". Clearly not desperate for cash.
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You know all her personal circumstances for that? Her family life and childcare arrangements? Whether she works extended hours in evenings instead? Whether she has an elderly parent she also is a carer for? Maybe because of the unbelievable pile of admin she chooses to do that in the afternoon rather than stay to 8pm doing it so she can be there for her family.
 
Tram said:
Well I not sure what you do, so suggesting they don't deserve more than you depends on what your job is.
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I didn't say they didn't deserve more than me. They clearly do. But there's earning a good wage and then there's taking the ****!

I don't have much sympathy for people living or working in London either. It's the most overrated city in the UK and you couldn't pay me to live or work there.
 
www.bbc.co.uk

NHS strike days plan puts patients at risk, says BMA

Union unhappy as bosses say they plan to keep non-urgent services running during walkout.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Wow the BMA are very concerned that hospitals are planning too many operations on strike days when they will be having a duvet day. It says staff will be spread too thinly.

Last year on strike days an awful lot of operations were lost and they would like to maintain this record this time.

:p
 
So I work in the private sector and I do try and not get sucked in by sensational headlines. And apologies for not reading all 33 pages. So I went ahead and asked copilot what the average junior doctor salary is in the UK and here is the response:

Average Salaries by Training Stage (2023/24 figures)​

GradeBasic Annual Pay
Foundation Year 1 (FY1)£32,397
Foundation Year 2 (FY2)£37,303
Core Training~£43,922
Specialty Registrar (ST)£55,328–£63,162


These figures reflect basic pay only — many junior doctors earn more through:
  • Unsocial hours (evenings, weekends)
  • On-call allowances
  • Extra shifts or locum work

Overall Average​

According to NHS Digital data, the average full-time junior doctor earned about £44,500 in basic pay in the year to September 2023. With additional earnings (like overtime), total pay can rise by around a third, meaning many junior doctors earn £55,000–£60,000+ annually

So many junior doctors can earn, potentially, over £55k annually.

I do feel, if accurate, that is low. I know of people in my work who earn that amount and the work they do does not involve saving lives. :eek: Doctors (whatever level) really should be some of the best paid in the country. According to CoPilot I asked what other jobs are around £55k annually and things like "HR Manager" and "Mortgage Advisor" popped into the list. Ouch. A Doctor, with the hours they work and years of training, getting the same as someone in an HR role. Not good.
 
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Uther said:
Five day strike starting from Friday. Not going to be overly impressed if the op I've been waiting several months for and has been cancelled once already gets cancelled again.
www.bbc.co.uk

Five-day doctor strike will go-ahead, says BMA

Union rejects plea by health secretary to call off strikes in England and continue talks.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Never mind they will have five strike (duvet) days then work as an expensive locum at the weekend.
 
I haven’t read the whole thread, but as a Consultant, if you can even find a post, you become one only after around twelve years of training. Most people have no idea of the time, sacrifice, and commitment that takes.

The decisions doctors make matter, a lot. Sure, there are bad ones, like in any profession. But most people in the NHS work there because they care. God knows it’s not for the money. Compare it to other professionals with similar levels of training / qualifications, and you’ll find them earning magnitudes more.

Frankly, the real problem with the NHS is ****-poor management and disastrous PFI deals.
 
Resident said:
So fo you think a near 60% pay rise in 3 years is reasonable?
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Depends on what you mean by " reasonable. Being paid £ 17.60 / hour after so many years of training, as it currently is, is not sensible.
Increasing it to 25/ hours seems better, but there is a reason the media and you prefer to use percentages as relative values rather than real figures, which helps in advancing your argument and '' righteous indignation '' I suppose
 
Mint8 said:
Cant see the public having much sympathy for them this time round somehow.
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I don't think it matters if I'm honest.

Public sympathy doesn't affect what an emergency plumber gets paid, City bonuses, lawyer's wages, the £200+ an hour labour bill at any car dealership, ever increasing insurance prices, food bills etc.

The staff of the NHS can't subsidise the cost of the NHS forever, the reality is we can't afford the healthcare we want, we're not even providing the basic quality healthcare we need.

The Government is wholesale pushing ahead with employing doctors assistants starting at £48k a year for 37.5 hours a week, the doctors supervising them are being paid less for a 40hr week whilst having more experience, more training and more skills. It makes no sense, yet here we are. We've got Paramedics, Nurses, Pharmacists and PAs all playing at being GPs whilst actual GPs can't find work.

What we're seeing is the slow death of the NHS in all likelihood.
 
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I can fully appreciate that they want more money and the reasons the give are to be honest pretty well thought through the optics though are terrible given that two years running they have had easily the biggest public sector pay rises going on strike for more while the rest of the workforce feel the pinch looks greedy and out of touch. The BMA come out of this awfully it is probably time for the professional body and the trade union to be formally separated as I don’t think they can work as a single entity anymore.
 
Minstadave said:
I don't think it matters if I'm honest.

Public sympathy doesn't affect what an emergency plumber gets paid, City bonuses, lawyer's wages, the £200+ an hour labour bill at any car dealership, ever increasing insurance prices, food bills etc.

The staff of the NHS can't subsidise the cost of the NHS forever, the reality is we can't afford the healthcare we want, we're not even providing the basic quality healthcare we need.

The Government is wholesale pushing ahead with employing doctors assistants starting at £48k a year for 37.5 hours a week, the doctors supervising them are being paid less for a 40hr week whilst having more experience, more training and more skills. It makes no sense, yet here we are. We've got Paramedics, Nurses, Pharmacists and PAs all playing at being GPs whilst actual GPs can't find work.

What we're seeing is the slow death of the NHS in all likelihood.
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We can afford it we are just not prepared to pay for it! The British electorate live in cloud cuckoo land, when asked we generally want Scandinavian level public services while at the same time saying we pay too much tax. Successive governments have not helped this by continually calling for Austerity and ‘efficiency savings’ instead of been brave enough to tell the people that if they want cake they want a Rolls Royce they can’t spend Rover money on it.
 
twas in the news today

Official figures show the cost of public services and interest payments on government debt rose faster than the increases in income tax and national insurance contributions.

It means government borrowing reached the second-highest level in June since records began in 1993, according to data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
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... but people buy their stuff on tick/never-never/clana etc. so they probably don't worry.
 
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