Your bad driving encounters

I was sat in a small queue for some traffic lights last night, I'd opened up a gap for a motorbike that was filtering, he waited in front of me for a while, but then started a long overtake, however I could see a van indicating and moving out just ahead and it was obvious he was going to turn in to a side road to the right, the motorcyclist clearly didn't spot this and seemingly accelerated and the inevitable happened, the Van driver hadn't seen him, so at maybe 30 mph, side swiped him.. no injuries and plenty of people there to help, the motorcyclist got straight up so no issues.

On replaying the camera footage (built in Tesla cameras) it seems obvious there is a lot going on, the junction has a cycleway over the top of it, there were two cyclists on that cycleway along with a pedestrian, the van driver may well have just had too many hazards around and was focussed on the cycleway/pedestrian activity and missed the Motorcyclist :(
I guess under the new HWC, its 100% the Van driver at fault, he will always be expected to look out for everyone else around him, but it feels like in this case I'd also reprimand the motorcyclist, that was some spectacular lack of awareness..
 
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I agree the motorcyclist has a lot of responsibility - I also imagine he's got a fair bit of self reprimanding going on if he came off his bike. He certainly won't be forgetting it anytime soon!
 
My understanding is that you should not overtake when approaching a junction and this applies to all road users. Having said that your are meant to check mirrors before manoeuvring. So in this instance it would most likely end up as split responsibility.
 
In a long straight rural B road and up ahead coming towards me I saw two cars begin an overtake of a lorry (it was carrying horses). Plenty of room and the first car did a very quick overtake, no issues. The 2nd car was a black Peugeot 203 and was clearly struggling to complete the overtake. This was not helped by the moron in the truck looking like they had sped up.

Instead of aborting the overtake the moron in the 203 kept very slowly overtaking. In the end I had to slow down quite a bit. Absolute madness and stubbornness from the 203 driver for not seeing they were never making it and had I not slowed down considerably it would have been a head on collision.

If you are relying on other road users to adjust for your incompetence and stupidity, you should not be on the road.
 
I had a near miss last week when on Holiday.. fairly OK but narrow A road going to Windermere in the Lakes and a train of 3 cars come around a blind corner with the last one well over the white line, how we missed him I have no idea..

This is when I first 'see' the car: (I'm in my lane, pretty much with the same margin as the Dacia has)
idoEHarh.jpg


And this is as he is at my front end (I'm on the anchors and heading for the side of the road)
ML5PTZ7h.jpg


No surprise their car looks like it's already been in a front end smash recently!

I managed to dodge in just enough without damaging anything..

 
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I see that so often now I just expect something to be across the middle line coming round a bend and try to plan accordingly (sometimes there's not really anywhere to go though...)
 
Demon said:
I had a near miss last week when on Holiday.. fairly OK but narrow A road going to Windermere in the Lakes and a train of 3 cars come around a blind corner with the last one well over the white line, how we missed him I have no idea..

This is when I first 'see' the car: (I'm in my lane, pretty much with the same margin as the Dacia has)
idoEHarh.jpg


And this is as he is at my front end (I'm on the anchors and heading for the side of the road)
ML5PTZ7h.jpg


No surprise their car looks like it's already been in a front end smash recently!

I managed to dodge in just enough without damaging anything..
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I wonder if their position suggested they were about to attempt an overtake after you passed (not sure if you had any cars behind you?).

The damaged bonnet doesn't surprise me either.
 
Demon said:
I guess under the new HWC, its 100% the Van driver at fault, he will always be expected to look out for everyone else around him, but it feels like in this case I'd also reprimand the motorcyclist, that was some spectacular lack of awareness..
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What HWC rules means it is the van driver fault for the motorcyclist not paying attention?
 
Richie said:
What HWC rules means it is the van driver fault for the motorcyclist not paying attention?
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Its all part of the new 'Hierachy of Vulnerability'

Effectively Rule 204 (overview) and specifically Rule 211

204:
The road users most at risk from road traffic are pedestrians, in particular children, older adults and disabled people, cyclists, horse riders and motorcyclists. It is particularly important to be aware of children, older adults and disabled people, and learner and inexperienced drivers and riders. In any interaction between road users, those who can cause the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they pose to others.
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211:
It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are waiting alongside you, coming up from behind, coming out of or moving off from junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think.

Do not turn at a junction if to do so would cause the cyclist going straight ahead to stop or swerve, just as you would do with a motor vehicle.

When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for and give way to cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when moving off, turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.
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The Q&A gives more context:
www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk

Vulnerable Road User Safety Principles

This government guidance, from The Highway Code , focuses on road users requiring extra care . It emphasizes the increased risk faced by pedestrians , particularly children, older adults, and...
www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk

So basically in this case, I'm pretty sure the Van driver would instantly found to be driving without due care and attention..

I personally think 95% motorcyclist, you can't admonish the Van driver entirely, he did fail to look as required.

Here's the video:
 
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Richie said:
What HWC rules means it is the van driver fault for the motorcyclist not paying attention?
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It's not 'all about the new hierarchy'. The text I've highlighted in bold applies to all vehicles.

179
Well before you turn right you should

  • use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you
  • give a right-turn signal
  • take up a position just left of the middle of the road or in the space marked for traffic turning right
  • leave room for other vehicles to pass on the left, if possible.

180
Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. Check your mirrors and blind spot again to make sure you are not being overtaken, then make the turn. Do not cut the corner. Take great care when turning into a main road; you will need to watch for traffic in both directions and wait for a safe gap.
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Hard to see in the video but, if the driver had their indicator on then the motorcyclist failed to look as well.

I realise what the letter of the law may say but to allow motorcyclists to be absolved of all responsibility sets a very serious precedence as some of them then take this and abuse it.
 
The highway code isn't about apportioning blame. The whole point of telling people to check mirrors before turning right *and* not overtake when approaching junctions is to prevent accidents happening in the first place.
 
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Brun said:
The highway code isn't about apportioning blame. The whole point of telling people to check mirrors before turning right *and* not overtake when approaching junctions is to prevent accidents happening in the first place.
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People are debating who is likely more at fault and the HWC is being used to support that. Given that a lot of the HWC is supported by Road Traffic Law, it is quite relevant. It is also extremely common for people to "refer others to the HWC" when they feel aggrieved in incidents on the road and they feel that the other party is to blame.

I put that refer bit in quotes as the "referral" usually takes the form of "you need to read the ******* HWC you ******* *****" :p :cry:
 
tom_e said:
Case law looks like it would go at least 50/50, possibly even more against the biker if witnesses backed up the claim that the van was indicating.

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I've had a similar accident, me in a car waiting to turn right with a row of traffic behind, bike decides to pull out from behind said traffic as I start turning, goes straight into my rear quarter, went 100% his fault
 
Haggisman said:
I've had a similar accident, me in a car waiting to turn right with a row of traffic behind, bike decides to pull out from behind said traffic as I start turning, goes straight into my rear quarter, went 100% his fault
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I'd expect nothing less if you'd already begun the manoeuvrer before they pulled out.
 
I suppose it's always going to be a risk when bikers do that long overtake. I've seen plenty do it (although not hit any or seen any get knocked down). Clearly the van didn't check his mirrors, but the biker also missed the indicator. Hopefully they will both learn lessons.
 
ICDP said:
My understanding is that you should not overtake when approaching a junction and this applies to all road users.
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Hence why many of them have a red outline triangular sign as you approach the junction, rule 167 as mentioned above is a do not rather than must not though so it isn't illegal to overtake when approaching or at a junction (unless road markings or signage indicate otherwise) but it could be used against you if an incident happens.

There are a couple of places on my commute to work where I not infrequently see close calls with people who persist in driving at 40 in a 60 take a right turning at a junction that happens to be in the middle of straight bits of road otherwise good for overtaking.
 
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