Soldato
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Is that a PGM?
***The Official Guitar Thread***
- Thread starter Nitefly
- Start date
It is! A PGM301.
Soldato
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Finally going to give guitar another shot.
Been looking at a Yamaha Pacifica, mainly the 120H or the 311H (leaning more towards the 311H).
Would also need a basic amp to get me started, any suggestions on where to start for a beginner? Might grab a Mustang micro to keep the family from going nuts too
Been looking at a Yamaha Pacifica, mainly the 120H or the 311H (leaning more towards the 311H).
Would also need a basic amp to get me started, any suggestions on where to start for a beginner? Might grab a Mustang micro to keep the family from going nuts too
I would check the finishing of the frets they can be sharp.
I picked up a Blackstar ID Core 10 and while the stereo sounds really nice, it's a bit too fiddly and modern sounding.
I also picked up a Boss Katana Mini used, and tbh that's really all I needed and having the battery option makes it a great for the couch and takes up less space. Kids use it occasionally too.
I picked up a Blackstar ID Core 10 and while the stereo sounds really nice, it's a bit too fiddly and modern sounding.
I also picked up a Boss Katana Mini used, and tbh that's really all I needed and having the battery option makes it a great for the couch and takes up less space. Kids use it occasionally too.
What music do you like listening to/want to play?
The Yamaha is a decent guitar for a strat design. I started out on a strat too.
120H looks to be an HSS (hum bucker, single coil, single coil) tremolo, the 130 is a hum bucker P90 hard tail.
My old strat is a SSS with trem. The 120 trem makes staying in tune more difficult and if you set up the guitar then it makes it a little more fiddly. The bridge will move on bends of strings etc which can make it easier to play. The HSS will give you the classic strat sounds. The single coils will sound thinner etc than the humbucker normally but in the bridge position it helps even out the tone. It will be good all around tone guitar, yet in bridge the humbucker may steel some of the high thin 'strat' sound of a single coil in that position.
SSS and HSS Strats work well with distortion because it's characteristic thinner sound worked well with the old distortion pedals as the lack of bass prevented the distortion flubbing out.
The 130 offers a humbucker and P90. This combo will give you more of a deeper sound and will bring some fatter 'les Paul' vibes to the tone without the Gibson style guitar. It is likely to sound a little warmer and less 'strat'. It also offers a hard tail. The guitar has vibes of a telecaster/Les Paul love child.
SSS - think shadows, think police, and most bands in many genres..
HSS - think the above (slightly warmer bridge) extending into rock and metal.
HH (P90) - think led zeppelin, think oasis, think blues and jazz, guns and roses, etc..
I would say take the pickup thing with a pinch of salt. The main difference is warmth of tone but aftermarket pickups can make a massive difference to the tone. My current guitar is a custom build and has two aftermarket pickups and the difference in clarity is noticeable compared to my little strat stock pickups. There's always something you can improve but in the end this is your learning guitar.
I believe the neck is thicker in the 130 from what people are saying - the neck makes/breaks a guitar in the hand. If you're learning, it's not really going to make too much of a difference. Once you get into the more complex chords and you develop what is comfortable then look at that.. you can change necks too with aftermarket ones or simply another guitar
The mustang offers some different tones in a small package, but it's also a mini-amp for headphones that at a later date you can add pedals in front of, even adding modelling or analogue pedals without needing an amp itself. As a kid I used to use the headphone out of a Marshal Lead 12 for the majority of the playing which is basically do the same, only difference is when the family is out the amp could be played naturally. So the mustang is a good option - only thing is power, it's rechargeable, so remembering to have it charged is a thing and there will be a time when the battery dies.
As long as the amp plays clean, you can apply any effect or change speaker and offers a 'music in' mixer so you can play along when wearing headphones.
Note on pedals - the mini pedals are too small to put a battery in. This means you need to have a power adaptor. This is why I have some pedals in the normal size (my tuner being one).
What I would suggest is a tuner - a plug in one works better with noise around, and you will find you enjoy an in tune guitar more. Popular tuners are polytune, korg, boss, and up the scale Peterson etc. A chromatic tuner (one that shows you how far out of tune you are and which note it's thinking it's detecting) is very usefully. Strobe tuners are a step up and more accurate. A poly tuner allows you to 'see' the tune of all the strings but trades off the accuracy of the display to "you're in tune" or "your flat/sharp" but not by how much.
I would probably advise you spend a little on a tuner that works for you as you will be using it a lot. I started with a tuning fork for E, then got a korg tuner that was ok for acoustic and electric but I now have a Peterson stompHD due to it being extremely accurate, readable at a distance and copes with any tuning (including working for 7 strings). It's the most important pedal.
Naturally a clip on will work so you don't have to keep unplugging the mustang mini and it's easier for travel/space.
Also it's worth getting an extra set of strings, and extra plectrums.
What case will you have?
I have a simple case, it's protected the strat for years (it's a 1988 model), hanging a strat is also an option if you want easy access but light fade and dings happen. The easier it is to pick up, the easier it is to start playing which is important when learning.
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Soldato
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What music do you like listening to/want to play?
The Yamaha is a decent guitar for a strat design. I started out on a strat too.
120H looks to be an HSS (hum bucker, single coil, single coil) tremolo, the 130 is a hum bucker P90 hard tail.
My old strat is a SSS with trem. The 120 trem makes staying in tune more difficult and if you set up the guitar then it makes it a little more fiddly. The bridge will move on bends of strings etc which can make it easier to play. The HSS will give you the classic strat sounds. The single coils will sound thinner etc than the humbucker normally but in the bridge position it helps even out the tone. It will be good all around tone guitar, yet in bridge the humbucker may steel some of the high thin 'strat' sound of a single coil in that position.
SSS and HSS Strats work well with distortion because it's characteristic thinner sound worked well with the old distortion pedals as the lack of bass prevented the distortion flubbing out.
The 130 offers a humbucker and P90. This combo will give you more of a deeper sound and will bring some fatter 'les Paul' vibes to the tone without the Gibson style guitar. It is likely to sound a little warmer and less 'strat'. It also offers a hard tail. The guitar has vibes of a telecaster/Les Paul love child.
SSS - think shadows, think police, and most bands in many genres..
HSS - think the above (slightly warmer bridge) extending into rock and metal.
HH (P90) - think led zeppelin, think oasis, think blues and jazz, guns and roses, etc..
I would say take the pickup thing with a pinch of salt. The main difference is warmth of tone but aftermarket pickups can make a massive difference to the tone. My current guitar is a custom build and has two aftermarket pickups and the difference in clarity is noticeable compared to my little strat stock pickups. There's always something you can improve but in the end this is your learning guitar.
I believe the neck is thicker in the 130 from what people are saying - the neck makes/breaks a guitar in the hand. If you're learning, it's not really going to make too much of a difference. Once you get into the more complex chords and you develop what is comfortable then look at that.. you can change necks too with aftermarket ones or simply another guitar
The mustang offers some different tones in a small package, but it's also a mini-amp for headphones that at a later date you can add pedals in front of, even adding modelling or analogue pedals without needing an amp itself. As a kid I used to use the headphone out of a Marshal Lead 12 for the majority of the playing which is basically do the same, only difference is when the family is out the amp could be played naturally. So the mustang is a good option - only thing is power, it's rechargeable, so remembering to have it charged is a thing and there will be a time when the battery dies.
As long as the amp plays clean, you can apply any effect or change speaker and offers a 'music in' mixer so you can play along when wearing headphones.
Note on pedals - the mini pedals are too small to put a battery in. This means you need to have a power adaptor. This is why I have some pedals in the normal size (my tuner being one).
What I would suggest is a tuner - a plug in one works better with noise around, and you will find you enjoy an in tune guitar more. Popular tuners are polytune, korg, boss, and up the scale Peterson etc. A chromatic tuner (one that shows you how far out of tune you are and which note it's thinking it's detecting) is very usefully. Strobe tuners are a step up and more accurate. A poly tuner allows you to 'see' the tune of all the strings but trades off the accuracy of the display to "you're in tune" or "your flat/sharp" but not by how much.
I would probably advise you spend a little on a tuner that works for you as you will be using it a lot. I started with a tuning fork for E, then got a korg tuner that was ok for acoustic and electric but I now have a Peterson stompHD due to it being extremely accurate, readable at a distance and copes with any tuning (including working for 7 strings). It's the most important pedal.
Naturally a clip on will work so you don't have to keep unplugging the mustang mini and it's easier for travel/space.
Also it's worth getting an extra set of strings, and extra plectrums.
What case will you have?
I have a simple case, it's protected the strat for years (it's a 1988 model), hanging a strat is also an option if you want easy access but light fade and dings happen. The easier it is to pick up, the easier it is to start playing which is important when learning.
What an informative response, thanks a lot!
I think I'm leaning into country/rock. Big fan of say Chris Stapleton and sounds similar to his which imo is a blend or rock/blues at times so I'm wondering if the 311H may be the better bet for me in that regard based on the above?
Not into anything heavy/metal etc
I'll digest the rest of the info now, again thanks for the help this far
Soldato
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Neither of those Pacifica models has any Strat style single coil pickups. That said, I've bumped into your post on Reddit and I think it's been well answered
Better quality tuners and nut is a good shout. Pacificas have always had brilliant build quality and QC so things like fretwork and materials/finish should be consistent between the two really. Upgrading some of the hardware is a meaningful inprovement.
Better quality tuners and nut is a good shout. Pacificas have always had brilliant build quality and QC so things like fretwork and materials/finish should be consistent between the two really. Upgrading some of the hardware is a meaningful inprovement.
Soldato
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Thanks yeah I've got some good answers over there but a bit of mixed messaging regarding what to expect out of each sound wise so that threw a spanner inNeither of those Pacifica models has any Strat style single coil pickups. That said, I've bumped into your post on Reddit and I think it's been well answered
Better quality tuners and nut is a good shout. Pacificas have always had brilliant build quality and QC so things like fretwork and materials/finish should be consistent between the two really. Upgrading some of the hardware is a meaningful inprovement.
Some guy claimed the 120h would only be good for heavy, which put me off, then others chimed in and shut him down with that opinion so felt a bit lost again. My initial thought was it's set up allows for 6 different sounds, so seemed more versatile for a beginner
But yeah the hardware improvements make the 311 appealing too
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If you want 'twang' then the telecaster with its singe coil single coil at the bridge and neck. It's slightly 'scooped' tone has that country vibe. It'll do rock too.
Key characteristic of the single coil is a an airy lightness at a cost of noise. The humbucker is is quieter but looses some of that airiness but gets a deeper/warmer output normally. The P90 is one of the original 'humbuckers' with a neutral less noisy tone but doesn't kill the noise completely.
In the end for a beginner trying to convey this may be a little bewildering. If you're doing country/rock like Stapleton then he does use P90s in a jag, so the 310 is likely to get closer to his sound.
I googled and it seemed the 120H was an HSS?
Not sure you really need locking tuners to be honest, but what is really nice are 18:1 tuners.
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I did same, they all look like HH. Both guitars are hard tail as well so maybe you got some shopping results that weren't quite accurate?
This is true TBF, I dislike locking tuners as is extra faff to me. But the idea of an upgrade is nice. It depends what tuners are on the 120H I guess!
Soldato
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Thanks. I did consider a telecaster for a while. I kind of feel I should go for the most versatile option as a pure beginner.
I'm wondering if I go for the "nearly new" 120h, I'd make a saving of £70 over the new 311h which I could put on a pre-owned amp or something.
Just don't want to make the wrong choice
While I have you, amp wise id just want something small to practice on for now. Are Black Star 10 any good? Got a few for sale near me for like £50
I'm wondering if I go for the "nearly new" 120h, I'd make a saving of £70 over the new 311h which I could put on a pre-owned amp or something.
Just don't want to make the wrong choice
While I have you, amp wise id just want something small to practice on for now. Are Black Star 10 any good? Got a few for sale near me for like £50
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Soldato
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I don't think any Pacifica will be a wrong choice, ideal beginner guitars 
Edit: and much more! They're just great for beginners because they are such consistent quality. A hard to play guitar might put you off.
Edit: and much more! They're just great for beginners because they are such consistent quality. A hard to play guitar might put you off.
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Thanks. I did consider a telecaster for a while. I kind of feel I should go for the most versatile option as a pure beginner.
I'm wondering if I go for the "nearly new" 120h, I'd make a saving of £70 over the new 311h which I could put on a pre-owned amp or something.
Just don't want to make the wrong choice
While I have you, amp wise id just want something small to practice on for now. Are Black Star 10 any good? Got a few for sale near me for like £50
The obvious question- budget?
The reason I asked the what music is it helps narrow down the choice.
Chris Stapleton = Fender Jag + P90s into a Fender Princeton. Naturally there's modifications and customisations but they form the basis of the tone. It will also do rock and others but the Princeton is a clean sounding amp, the P90s give a neutral/warm sound.
So we could do: Pacifica 310 -> Mustang Mini -> headphones and that would work. The mini has settings to 'model' the amp so it will sound like Including various Fender amps, and others like the Vox etc, with clean through to heavy distortion, it also has reverb etc. Page 4: https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/OM_2311300000_Mustang_Micro_US.pdf Note that the Plus adds more amps including the Princeton ... for a few squids more..
Another 'modelling' device is the GP5, it uses your phone to mod the parameters so it may last a few years before the software disappears. It's got good reviews and the output will do headphone and line.
GP-5 – valeton
www.valeton.net
Later you can rock out when you get an amp by just playing this through it, unlike the Mustang.
The Black Star 10 is a modelling amp. It's also discontinued so its compatibility with their Architect software for downloading new patches etc is on a whim and one software update it may stop working. It does have an inbuilt tuner mode (hold reverb) but its patch information is simply "clean', "crunch" etc rather than specific amps sound. No idea how well they will work for getting your intended sound. Solid state 10W is reasonably loud for bedroom use. It has other features like reverb etc but, again, they're a little wishy washy about the specifics. Try and Dial..
Lastly if the BS10 dies then it's not really serviceable from all accounts. People attempting to shift them on may be for a reason.
Boss Katana is decent, but larger/expense... and this is where I believe your budget will stop
Personally if I was you - I'd go for:
* Pacifica (Yamaha has a good quality reputation for sound but it's not seen as fashionable by the cool kids)
* Case for guitar (this will keep the guitar and bits together too, GP5 is small enough to get into a case)
* GP5 - it has an inbuilt tuner, modelling, headphone, amp and hifi output..
* 9V pedal PSU but the GP5 will do 5V USB power too.
* quality guitar cable
* plectrums
* change of strings
+ guitar lessons / evening class..
I'd be interested in trying a GP5 myself, only thing is my JCM amp is quite compressed sounding (that's the JCM sound) so I'd need to workout an option to solve that. Anderson's did a demo of it and it has some good sounds.. only down side is that you need a phone app to change some of the parameters. The larger brother has knobs to twiddle.
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Soldato
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The obvious question- budget?
The reason I asked the what music is it helps narrow down the choice.
Chris Stapleton = Fender Jag + P90s into a Fender Princeton. Naturally there's modifications and customisations but they form the basis of the tone. It will also do rock and others but the Princeton is a clean sounding amp, the P90s give a neutral/warm sound.
So we could do: Pacifica 310 -> Mustang Mini -> headphones and that would work. The mini has settings to 'model' the amp so it will sound like Including various Fender amps, and others like the Vox etc, with clean through to heavy distortion, it also has reverb etc. Page 4: https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/OM_2311300000_Mustang_Micro_US.pdf Note that the Plus adds more amps including the Princeton ... for a few squids more..
Another 'modelling' device is the GP5, it uses your phone to mod the parameters so it may last a few years before the software disappears. It's got good reviews and the output will do headphone and line.
More flexible than the Mustang mini (will plug into a larger amp as well as headphones), but it's mini format will require a 9V power brick (the standard is centre NEGATIVE and not positive for pedals so be warned). It is preloaded with hundreds of models but also can import new NAM files. Note you can select the model of amp and the speaker cab, mix vice versa. It has Fenders (Page30: https://res.valeton.net/Uploads/wp/download/1748936007255.GP-5_Online Manual_EN_Firmware V1.0.3.pdf) but not specifically the Princeton. It also has an inbuilt tuner. You'd need a cable to get from the guitar to the pedal and long enough to get back on the headphones.GP-5 – valeton
Later you can rock out when you get an amp by just playing this through it, unlike the Mustang.
The Black Star 10 is a modelling amp. It's also discontinued so its compatibility with their Architect software for downloading new patches etc is on a whim and one software update it may stop working. It does have an inbuilt tuner mode (hold reverb) but its patch information is simply "clean', "crunch" etc rather than specific amps sound. No idea how well they will work for getting your intended sound. Solid state 10W is reasonably loud for bedroom use. It has other features like reverb etc but, again, they're a little wishy washy about the specifics. Try and Dial..
Lastly if the BS10 dies then it's not really serviceable from all accounts. People attempting to shift them on may be for a reason.
Boss Katana is decent, but larger/expense...
Thanks again, I'll take a look at the suggestions!
Talking of budget ideally didn't really want to exceed £400 where possible
Soldato
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Pulled the trigger on the 311h
So now I'll either get a Mustang micro or a small amp now, and get the other later.
My thinking with the micro was I could just practice without annoying everyone
But then I guess amps have headphone jacks too so maybe a small pre-owned amp would be a better fit to start. Best of both worlds until I find my feet/give up
So now I'll either get a Mustang micro or a small amp now, and get the other later.
My thinking with the micro was I could just practice without annoying everyone
But then I guess amps have headphone jacks too so maybe a small pre-owned amp would be a better fit to start. Best of both worlds until I find my feet/give up
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Pulled the trigger on the 311h
Nice! Photos when it arrives!
I can still remember my first £5 guitar off a mate. It had a 'P90' style pickup and definitely was a DIY job somewhere along the line! The 1988 Strat was my second and I still have it 37 years later. Still a good guitar and will probably be in past 50 before I snuff it and it gets handed on.
So now I'll either get a Mustang micro or a small amp now, and get the other later.
My thinking with the micro was I could just practice without annoying everyone
But then I guess amps have headphone jacks too so maybe a small pre-owned amp would be a better fit to start. Best of both worlds until I find my feet/give up
Not all do but amps that are 'practice amps' tend to. Pretty much any of the mini amps for bedroom/home practice have them.
The reason I was pushing the GP5 is it would give you a tuner (not offered by the Mustang Micro but is in the plus version) and the wide and expandable modelling options. Practice amps will be solid state and have a small speaker. Proper modelling like the GP5 will allow you to experience the larger "tube" sound and different cabs with larger speakers. As a value for money the GP5 gives you more than perhaps the fender does. It also has effects from pedals built in too.
A solid state 12W practice amp will be plenty loud. Certainly in a detached house my parents put up with it but when you want to play at night etc you will be on headphones even with the practice amp, and not to mention you will want to play along with things - so having a "in" for playing along (where the music and your guitar are mixed into the same headphone output) is very useful. However don't expect a 12W to work in a band/group setting - just to manage expectations!
I didn't build my amp with a headphone socket so I'm limited to playing during compatible hours but growing up my little Marshall Lead 12 phone socket got more use than I thought it would.
You can download the Fender tuner app from the store and that should do well for non-noisy environments (you don't need the 'pro' version etc).
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@easyrider do you have any tips on how to go about recording and tracking your guitar etc, for a beginner to that sort of thing?
I’m thinking, I want to throw down riffs etc. to a drum track, or create some loops to jam along to. But I’m really not sure where to start and it’s a bit of a rabbit hole…!
Sorry for the tricky Q.
I’m thinking, I want to throw down riffs etc. to a drum track, or create some loops to jam along to. But I’m really not sure where to start and it’s a bit of a rabbit hole…!
Sorry for the tricky Q.
Any advice on virtual amp sim software to play about with? I have Logic on my mac which is fine to record (used for other stuff in the past so not used for guitar specifically) but it just feels a bit of a slow process to swap settings, pedalboards etc for experimentation. I have a Scarlett audio interface and ideally after something that works on MacOS
I tried NeuralDSP before building my amp etc. My USB interface is an Arturia MiniFuse 1. Some observations:
* there's a delay between playing and it appearing, but not as bad as Garage Band. I also used it in OBS for recording and that worked too but it still has a little lag compared to an amp.
* plenty of expensive models - I tried a couple including the Abasi and Fortin etc but those models aren't as flexible as some of the pedal modellers.
* licensed software and versions only remain usable with vendor updates with the rate that apple releases OS updates/models resulting in short lifetime for that expense.
* using and altering parameters means firing up the computer and mouse navigations, menus etc, not just flipping a switch or twiddling a dial. I had the same problem when I bought Reason in the past, only for it to be unusable due to versions moving fast and OS updates etc.
In the end I decided to go down the route of building my own guitar amp and adding pedals.
To me I prefer something that I can access all the feature from the hardware device itself and not rely on external computers or operating system compatibility. So a modeller with a hardware interface would be ok as it should last longer than a computer software based modeller for the same investment.