Today's mass shooting in the US

[bigmike20vt]

More stabbings in UK schools in 2025 by far than shootings in US schools, should we ban knif... oh wait.

i think that is a bit of a false equivalence.

a knifes primary use isnt to injure people....... many of the guns in the us that is precisely their use.

remember guns in the UK are not banned.......... for guns that have a genuine use case other than shooting people, you can still own with the correct licences. my dad owns a handful of shotguns and rifles without any issues at all.

however handguns and automatic weapons........... you would have a hard time justifying that they are for use in shooting game for instance.

knives similarly have a wide range of uses... and indeed i believe certain types of knives ARE banned arnt they? (flick knives and butterfly knives for instance)

 

[Werewolf]

Here's an interesting perspective which touches on guns in America:

I'm reminded of the number of Americans who think they could take on a bear and win without weapons.

Or for that matter thing they could win unarmed against a wolf, or even just a large dog From memory a much larger number of Americans are stupid enough to think they could do so than any other western nation in a survey of animals they think they could take on unarmed.

IIRC America does actually have pickpockets, just not really the rep for them, it's more likely to be a robbery with a knife or a gun away from the crowded tourist areas that are typically a pickpockets favourite haunt.

The whole point of pickpocketing is that the victim doesn’t know it’s happened until it’s too late. Bad pickpockets in Europe probably get decked from time to time. The good ones are gone before you’re even aware your wallet is missing.

Stupid Americans.

Yup, a half decent pick pocket will be well out of sight by the time you realise you've lost your wallet.

More stabbings in UK schools in 2025 by far than shootings in US schools, should we ban knif... oh wait.

And how many deaths?

IIRC America has a knife problem as well, it's just that it's rather overshadowed by the gun problem.

IIRC the US averages something like 5 times the murder rate per capita of pretty much any European country, the only one that is anything like close is Lichtenstien, and IIRC that's only because it's such a small country a single murder per year puts it well above the European average.

Also as has been mentioned, knives have a repeated daily use in pretty much every household, not to mention almost all work environments (even if just to open boxes of pampers at the daycare*) as every retail store, office, medical facility, etc will be getting packages incoming that need to be opened, and that's before the catering industry, let alone any of the trades.


*Although I'd expect them to be using something like a "fishtail" safety knife with the recessed fixed blade and the tiny spring loaded external blade (even that is potentially nasty if used "wrong", despite it only being 5mm long).

 

[TheVoice]

i think that is a bit of a false equivalence.

a knifes primary use isnt to injure people....... many of the guns in the us that is precisely their use.

remember guns in the UK are not banned.......... for guns that have a genuine use case other than shooting people, you can still own with the correct licences. my dad owns a handful of shotguns and rifles without any issues at all.

however handguns and automatic weapons........... you would have a hard time justifying that they are for use in shooting game for instance.

knives similarly have a wide range of uses... and indeed i believe certain types of knives ARE banned arnt they? (flick knives and butterfly knives for instance)

I can't even find a reliable source of 2025 data for what's he's claiming, so I suspect it's made up. For 2024 the number of school shooting victims is far higher than the number of knife incidents resulting in injury in the UK, though it's difficult to compare as there's no standardised recording method for school shootings (or most crime really) in the US so you're reliiant on other organisations trying to capture and collate the data.

 

[Quartz]

I'm reminded of the number of Americans who think they could take on a bear and win without weapons.

Yet she cites one elderly lady who shot a mugger.

 

[Werewolf]

I can't even find a reliable source of 2025 data for what's he's claiming, so I suspect it's made up. For 2024 the number of school shooting victims is far higher than the number of knife incidents resulting in injury in the UK, though it's difficult to compare as there's no standardised recording method for school shootings (or most crime really) in the US so you're reliiant on other organisations trying to capture and collate the data.

IIRC the most comprehensive stats for shootings was for a very long time done by several newspapers and IIRC a university working together.

As for some reason there is no federally mandated all encompassing statistic for shootings, so it was down to some researchers to basically monitor various news outlets and do freedom of information requests.

 

[C Kent]

For 2024 the number of school shooting victims is far higher than the number of knife incidents resulting in injury in the UK, though it's difficult to compare as there's no standardised recording method for school shootings (or most crime really) in the US so you're reliiant on other organisations trying to capture and collate the data.

You sure about that? There were 88 shootings in schools in America last year:

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www.cnn.com

Whereas there were 150 knife attacks reported from around 60% of the forces in England and Wales - the figures don't even include Scotland and N.I. https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...knife-attacks-at-schools-in-england-and-wales

This year theres been 44 shootings in us schools, cant see if theyve released uk figures yet but im willing to bet its a darn sight more than 44. So yeah hes right, more stabbings in uk schools than shootings in us schools.

 

[bigmike20vt]

You sure about that? There were 88 shootings in schools in America last year:

Loading…

www.cnn.com

Whereas there were 150 knife attacks reported from around 60% of the forces in England and Wales - the figures don't even include Scotland and N.I. https://www.channel4.com/news/factc...knife-attacks-at-schools-in-england-and-wales

This year theres been 44 shootings in us schools, cant see if theyve released uk figures yet but im willing to bet its a darn sight more than 44. So yeah hes right, more stabbings in uk schools than shootings in us schools.

a knife attack has a far larger range than shooting however, that is the thing with statistics you can frame them however you like.

would some nobend pulling a knife to get some 1st years pocket money be in the same bucket as someone having life changing injuries.

note i am not excusing either but one is very different to another....... it would be more comparable to people killed or sent to intensive care via knife attacks vs fatal / serious injury shootings. (i have no idea how they compare and tbh not sure it matters)

 

[imtoooldforthis]

Fact is as a student you are incredibly unlikely to be shot or stabbed in either country.

 

[C Kent]

a knife attack has a far larger range than shooting however, that is the thing with statistics you can frame them however you like.

would some nobend pulling a knife to get some 1st years pocket money be in the same bucket as someone having life changing injuries.

note i am not excusing either but one is very different to another....... it would be more comparable to people killed or sent to intensive care via knife attacks vs fatal / serious injury shootings. (i have no idea how they compare and tbh not sure it matters)

If you frame knife attacks in uk schools as 'some nobend pulling a knife to get some 1st years pocket money' then yeah they aren't comparable obviously..

 

[Werewolf]

He might have been confusing school shootings with mass shootings.
They're up to something like 150 for the year, and it's been pretty consistent for years that it's one every something like 1.5 days, to the point that I saw one of the researches comment that apparently they can almost use it as a dating system in itself as they know statistically when certain milestones for the shootings will happen to within a week or so.

 

[bigmike20vt]

If you frame knife attacks in uk schools as 'some nobend pulling a knife to get some 1st years pocket money' then yeah they aren't comparable obviously..

indeed, tho i wasnt framing it as that... however i was querying if that is what others frame them as to create the numbers . i mean it IS still a knife attack - or at least it is how i would feel if someone did it to me but its not the same as actually hospitalising someone or worse..

also if absolute push comes to shove...... i would rather someone pull a knife on me than a gun...... if guns were more available in the uk maybe some of those knife attacks WOULD be gun attacks... as such i am glad we have far better gun control in the uk. ....... it is nuts tho however you slice it. back when i was at school people got into a fight and the worst you really had to contend with is a black eye or a bloody nose. maybe i was just insulated by not living in a ....hole but either way things seem to be spiralling

 

[Vonhelmet]

If you frame knife attacks in uk schools as 'some nobend pulling a knife to get some 1st years pocket money' then yeah they aren't comparable obviously..

Sure, but the number of people actually getting killed or seriously injured in knife attacks in UK schools is almost certainly lower than those getting killed or seriously injured in gun attacks in US schools. It’s probably lower than the number of people getting killed or seriously injured in knife attacks in US schools, come to that.

 

[TheVoice]

You sure about that? There were 88 shootings in schools in America last year:

Loading…

www.cnn.com

276 shooting victims:

K-12 School Shooting Database

K-12 School Shooting Database documents when a gun is fired, brandished (with intent to harm), or bullet hits school property

k12ssdb.org

A single school shooting often results in multiple victims. I didn't use their figures for school shootings as their definition is too wide and includes non-shooting incidents.

 

[C Kent]

276 shooting victims:

K-12 School Shooting Database

K-12 School Shooting Database documents when a gun is fired, brandished (with intent to harm), or bullet hits school property

k12ssdb.org

A single school shooting often results in multiple victims. I didn't use their figures for school shootings as their definition is too wide and includes non-shooting incidents.

seems to me they pull all their info from the broad dataset they use?

How many school shootings this year? Unlike other data sources, this information includes gang shootings, domestic violence, shootings at sports games and afterhours school events, suicides, fights that escalate into shootings, and accidents.

 

[TheVoice]

seems to me they pull all their info from the broad dataset they use?

That's a fair point. It would be interesting to know how many victims there were in the 88 quoted by CNN in that case.

I'm afraid I'm still not going to give Jaffa the benefit of the doubt without sources being cited given how varied the data can be from one source to the next, especially when it was really just a cynical attempt to undermine discussion about gun control.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

Here's an interesting perspective which touches on guns in America:

The pickpockets in America don't need to pickpocket, they just need to start a church and tell you they'll save you and your loved ones from your cancer diagnosis if you pay them enough money.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Here's an interesting perspective which touches on guns in America:

There's a video currently circulating of an american tourist in europe beating up a pickpocket. So I guess there is something to point 3

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Because shooting someone is a reasonable response to an attempted purse snatch?

Violent mugging yeah, but if it was an attempted snatch-and-go...

Either way, whilst they might have fewer instances of sneaky pickpockets, do they perhaps have more armed muggings?

This is a question for its own thread, but why do people care so much about criminals over there victims? Why should people live in fear of purse snatchers?

 

[Vonhelmet]

This is a question for its own thread, but why do people care so much about criminals over there victims? Why should people live in fear of purse snatchers?

That’s a bit of a reach. There’s a difference between saying people “care so much about criminals over their victims” and thinking that maybe shooting someone is a bit over the top.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

That’s a bit of a reach. There’s a difference between saying people “care so much about criminals over their victims” and thinking that maybe shooting someone is a bit over the top.

Nope I stand by my first statement. Do you think people should be throwing hands with the criminal so that it is a fair fight? All it takes is one serious punch and then you got mugged and now have life changing injuries.

Also my statement is very much in a broader sense because i see this attitude pop up for too much.