Summer Transfer Window 25/26 *Sponsored by Bigpig*

spudbynight said:
Your framing is your opinion. Your interpretation is your opinion.

Please stop presenting your opinion as fact.
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I point to facts to back up my opinions, there's a difference. When your owner openly states that the club would need to sell a player if he doesn't sign a new deal, it's not 'just in case he leaves' situation. But I know you have a history of ignoring Steve Parish admitting to things and believing what you want to believe rather than the reality so it shouldn't surprise me that you're doing it again.
 
BaZ87 said:
Your framing of the whole Guehi situation is at complete odds with reality. Steve Parish admitted weeks ago that if Guehi wouldn't sign a new deal then he'd have to be sold. Palace knew that Guehi was highly likely to leave and it was the preference of the club that he left. It was never a 'just in case' situation, it was a highly likely outcome and any sensible club would have replacements lined up.

You cannot compare this to the Wissa situation either. Newcastle have ended up paying around double(?) what they initially offered whereas Palace accepted an offer a few £m more than they were offered weeks ago. Guehi has continued to play because ultimately Glasner has point blank refused to accept his departure - he's literally been saying it for weeks.

I suppose you believe that Brentford go into every transfer window without any targets because after all, they have no idea how much they're going to receive from sales in any given window? Of course they don't because they're not run by Derek Trotter.
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Not at all - there is a food chain in the Premier Leaguev when it comes to transfers. Man United, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea are in a different league, with Newcastle, Villa, Spurs and one or two others a bit behind.

The rest of us have to operate differently out of financial necessity. We can't just have offers sat out there in the ether on a "maybe" that we have to sell one of our players.

Our targets are drawn up because an extra £5m incoming here or there makes a huge difference to what we can spend. What if Liverpool hadn't increased the price today? What if they'd withdrawn the bid, or even said "new offer, £20m tops. Deal with it". Palace can't operate in the market without certainty.

We do have a list of targets drawn up - in fact we plan our windows 12-18 months in advance - but we can't just pluck signings out of the air on potential outgoings. Ours is a very good example of that, as we tried late in the window to attempt it - Max Beier, Lucas Stassin, etc. - and still weren't able to get deals done. Other teams want to get their transfers done with plenty of time to spare, and the cost for even average players is enough for many hands to not want to sell.

Our DoF has communicated to a couple of fans post-window tonight his thoughts on this summer and the difficulties that he saw - by miles and miles and miles it's a sellers market. You can get good prices for players going out, but trying to replace them at a similar level of ability has been virtually impossible, certainly the most difficult he's seen it since we got promoted 4 years ago. Palace failed to replace their best player with the 5th/6th choice CB from a mid-table rival...

We made three big sales this window - one was replaced through our record buy for a bench-warmer at one of our competitors, the other was replaced by a 35 year old freebie, and the other we couldn't replace at all.

It might be worth keeping in mind that the player trading difficulties many teams have simply aren't problems the big six ever come across.
 
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toshj said:
Not at all - there is a food chain in the Premier Leaguev when it comes to transfers. Man United, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea are in a different league, with Newcastle, Villa, Spurs and one or two others a bit behind.

The rest of us have to operate differently out of financial necessity. We can't just have offers sat out there in the ether on a "maybe" we have to sell one of our players.

Are targets are drawn up because an extra £5m incoming here or there makes a huge difference to what we can spend. What if Liverpool hadn't increased the price today? What if they'd withdrawn the bid, or even said "new offer, £20m tops. Deal with it". Palace can't operate in the market without certainty.

We do have a list of targets drawn up - in fact we plan our windows 12-18 months in advance - but we can't just pluck signings out of the air on potential outgoings. Ours is a very good example of that, as we tried late in the window to attempt it - Max Beier, Lucas Stassin, etc. - and still weren't able to get deals done. Other teams want to get their transfers done with plenty of time to spare, and the cost for even average players is enough for many hands to not want to sell.

Our DoF has communicated to a couple of fans post-window tonight his thoughts on this summer and the difficulties that he saw - by miles and miles and miles it's a sellers market. You can get good prices for players going out, but trying to replace them at a similar level of ability has been virtually impossible, certainly the most difficult he's seen it since we got promoted 4 years ago. Palace failed to replace their best player with the 5th/6th choice CB from a mid-table rival...

We made three big sales this window - one was replaced through our record buy for a bench-warmer at one of our competitors, the other was replaced by a 35 year old freebie, and the other we couldn't replace at all.

It might be worth keeping in mind that the player trading difficulties many teams have simply aren't problems the big six ever come across.
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Again, you're working on the basis that Guehi leaving was some sort of a long shot. As I've pointed out, Steve Parish openly states on numerous occasions that Palace would have to sell him if he wouldn't sign a new deal. When you're in that situation you have to work with what you've got and if Liverpool's opening offer of £30-35m is the offer and as we know, Palace were willing to accept £35m + a 10% sell-on, we're not talking about offers in a different ball park. The possible replacements Palace could line up will be broadly the same.

However if you believe a few million really is such a game changer to a club like Palace then how on earth have they now decided to not sanction the sale and risk losing out on that £35m? You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't say that £2-5m moves the needle so much that we can't identify a target but also say we're able to risk losing £35m.

And of course Brentford have their targets lined up, like every side does. Any sensible club will have a range of targets for every position just in case there's a freak injury or an unexpected departure. But again, this wasn't unexpected. Palace will have known for many months that Guehi is entering the last year of his deal and had to plan for his departure. They'd also know that because he's down to the last year of his deal that the offers they'd receive wouldn't be the same as 12 months previous.

As I said earlier, I have absolutely no issue with Palace deciding not to sell but the reason this deal hasn't happened is not because Palace weren't aware of what they were going to receive. They knew weeks ago and the deal was there to be done weeks ago had they chose to (again I'm fine with them deciding not to). The deal hasn't gone through because they failed to land their targets and the manager decided that they can't afford to let him go, even if that means losing him for nothing.
 
So Liverpool had offered an amount previously that Palace rejected? And have had all window to get this done.

And then today, with several hours before the window shut, Liverpool finally increased that amount to a figure that Palace were happy with... and Palace, not having any guarantee that a bid was coming in today, not knowing the amount that Liverpool were offering, and therefore not knowing how much they can spend on a replacement in the space of a few hours... Palace are too blame for it not going through?

Lol
 
BaZ87 said:
I point to facts to back up my opinions, there's a difference. When your owner openly states that the club would need to sell a player if he doesn't sign a new deal, it's not 'just in case he leaves' situation. But I know you have a history of ignoring Steve Parish admitting to things and believing what you want to believe rather than the reality so it shouldn't surprise me that you're doing it again.
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No, you don’t.

Parish said we would need to sell Guehi.

He didn’t say we would need to sell Guehi at any cost.

You have misrepresented what he said to suit your opinion. Now you have decided to get personal. That isn’t big and it isn’t clever.
 
toshj said:
So Liverpool had offered an amount previously that Palace rejected? And have had all window to get this done.

And then today, with several hours before the window shut, Liverpool finally increased that amount to a figure that Palace were happy with... and Palace, not having any guarantee that a bid was coming in today, not knowing the amount that Liverpool were offering, and therefore not knowing how much they can spend on a replacement in the space of a few hours... Palace are too blame for it not going through?

Lol
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I've not once said Palace are to blame. And I agreed with @spudbynight previously when he said that Liverpool didn't want him enough.

My argument has been around this fantasy that Palace couldn't identify a replacement until a deal was finally agreed with Liverpool. Palace didn't start looking for replacements this afternoon when a deal was agreed, they'd have been looking for weeks, full in the knowledge of the fee (within a reasonable range) that they'll receive. The deal didn't fall through because Palace didn't know what they were going to receive, it fell through because they couldn't nail down a replacement.
spudbynight said:
No, you don’t.

Parish said we would need to sell Guehi.

He didn’t say we would need to sell Guehi at any cost.

You have misrepresented what he said to suit your opinion. Now you have decided to get personal. That isn’t big and it isn’t clever.
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You should read what I said rather than getting worked up and misinterpreting things. I said Parish said you would need to sell, I didn't say Parish said you would sell at any cost :confused:

And I'm sorry if you think that me pointing out that you ignore facts is being personal but unfortunately you do.
 
toshj said:
So Liverpool had offered an amount previously that Palace rejected? And have had all window to get this done.

And then today, with several hours before the window shut, Liverpool finally increased that amount to a figure that Palace were happy with... and Palace, not having any guarantee that a bid was coming in today, not knowing the amount that Liverpool were offering, and therefore not knowing how much they can spend on a replacement in the space of a few hours... Palace are too blame for it not going through?

Lol
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£35 million has been on the table for weeks, Palace wanted 35 plus 5m add ons. Palace accepted £35 with a 10% fee which is of no use now in buying a replacement so Palace have known for weeks they would get £35 million if they chose to sell, which they did.

Liverpool never took £35 million off the table.

edit, may not have been weeks but the original bid has always been £35 million which is the fee Palace wanted, add ons, sell ons isn't helping buy a replacement now. So Palace didn't need to take a chance on buying a replacement in case Liverpool didn't bid, they knew what fee they would get.

Taken from the BBC sport pages

Liverpool have made an improved £35m bid, which includes a 10% sell-on clause, for Crystal Palace defender Marc Guehi.

Having held club-to-club talks earlier this month Liverpool made a straight £35m offer to Palace for Guehi, which has remained on the table.

Talks recommenced in recent days and it is understood Liverpool have indicated they are prepared to include a 10% sell-on clause.

Palace have responded by saying they want a deal worth £35m and an added £5m in bonuses. Talks between the clubs are ongoing in an attempt to reach a deal before Monday's transfer deadline.
 
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BaZ87 said:
I've not once said Palace are to blame. And I agreed with @spudbynight previously when he said that Liverpool didn't want him enough.

My argument has been around this fantasy that Palace couldn't identify a replacement until a deal was finally agreed with Liverpool. Palace didn't start looking for replacements this afternoon when a deal was agreed, they'd have been looking for weeks, full in the knowledge of the fee (within a reasonable range) that they'll receive. The deal didn't fall through because Palace didn't know what they were going to receive, it fell through because they couldn't nail down a replacement.
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Not knowing if he was going to be sold and for how much is important when replacing a player. It's far, far, far more difficult for Palace to replace Guehi than it is for you to buy him.

There's no way in hell they're going to get close to a player of Guehi's calibre for £35m or a similar fee. Top targets might have gone elsewherein the period that it took Liverpoolto offer the acceptable amount. Palace very likely realised that bringing in a first team starter to replace/get close to Guehi's level would have been too expensive, whilst players they could afford weren't good enough... and each day that passed by without Liverpool making the acceptable offer meant that pool of candidates for Palace grew smaller and smaller, and more and more expensive.

They could have spent months working on it and not come up with anyone, and the later that Liverpool left it to make a bid, the greater the asking price would have been from the selling club for his replacement. You can't have your cake and eat it. You bid early enough - earlier in the window - and high enough for Palace to accept the offer, or you run the risk of the deal not going through for a lack of replacement. After all, they didn't know for sure you were going to bid enough even as of yesterday. It wasn't unlikely, but it wasn't guaranteed either.

We were chucking around £50m bids to replace Wissa a week ago and still couldn't get something done. According to our DoF tonight... there's very little value in the last few weeks of the window for clubs of our size, and you're only choice is to wildly overpay.
 
scarps said:
£35 million has been on the table for weeks, Palace wanted 35 plus 5m add ons. Palace accepted £35 with a 10% fee which is of no use now in buying a replacement so Palace have known for weeks they would get £35 million if they chose to sell, which they did.

Liverpool never took £35 million off the table.
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Yet as recently as this the papers where still talking about £30m not £35m



www.mirror.co.uk

Liverpool's Ibrahima Konate concern behind £30m Marc Guehi pursuit revealed

Arne Slot has already made a number of major additions to his Liverpool squad but a move for Crystal Palace captain Marc Guehi could still happen before the window shuts
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk
 
spudbynight said:
Yet as recently as this the papers where still talking about £30m not £35m



www.mirror.co.uk

Liverpool's Ibrahima Konate concern behind £30m Marc Guehi pursuit revealed

Arne Slot has already made a number of major additions to his Liverpool squad but a move for Crystal Palace captain Marc Guehi could still happen before the window shuts
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk
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See edited above, its always been 35. I added a piece from BBC pages.

Mirror article is just speculation.

www.bbc.co.uk

Marc Guehi transfer news: Liverpool make improved £35m bid for Crystal Palace defender

Liverpool make an improved £35m bid, which includes a 10% sell-on clause, for Crystal Palace defender Marc Guehi.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
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toshj said:
Not knowing if he was going to be sold and for how much is important when replacing a player. It's far, far, far more difficult for Palace to replace Guehi than it is for you to buy him.

There's no way in hell they're going to get close to a player of Guehi's calibre for £35m or a similar fee. Top targets might have gone elsewherein the period that it took Liverpoolto offer the acceptable amount. Palace very likely realised that bringing in a first team starter to replace/get close to Guehi's level would have been too expensive, whilst players they could afford weren't good enough... and each day that passed by without Liverpool making the acceptable offer meant that pool of candidates for Palace grew smaller and smaller, and more and more expensive.

They could have spent months working on it and not come up with anyone, and the later that Liverpool left it to make a bid, the greater the asking price would have been from the selling club for his replacement. You can't have your cake and eat it. You bid early enough - earlier in the window - and high enough for Palace to accept the offer, or you run the risk of the deal not going through for a lack of replacement. After all, they didn't know for sure you were going to bid enough even as of yesterday. It wasn't unlikely, but it wasn't guaranteed either.

We were chucking around £50m bids to replace Wissa a week ago and still couldn't get something done. According to our DoF tonight... there's very little value in the last few weeks of the window for clubs of our size, and you're only choice is to wildly overpay.
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I've not disputed or argued against anything you've said here and defended Palace's right to pull out of the deal if it's not right for them.

The situation Palace were in was no different to the situation every club finds themselves in going into every window though. All clubs have a budget that they're working to and will have players they hope to sell to increase that. No club will know what they're ultimately going to receive but they'll have a rough idea or at least an idea of what they're willing to accept and they'll form their targets based off that.

Given the clubs position that they're likely to have to sell Guehi, it's safe to assume that Palace would have had multiple targets lined up. They didn't wait for Liverpool to bid before looking for replacements.
 
Great incoming window for Arsenal but our outgoings have been atrocious, less wages but loans and releases everywhere.
 
Robbo said:
Can someone check on Bigpig
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There’s no need for a welfare check.

Bigpig is perfectly happy with the Business Newcastle have completed in the summer. It’s better the Rat showed his teeth before Bigpig named a pet after him or something.

Bigpig knows PSR is real and others keep suggesting that how much a big sale is beneficial. Well we only went and sold a rat to Liverpool for the biggest ever British fee :D

after getting battered in our Striker search all summer we somehow came out of this Drama still intact and two very good signings.

What is it nearly 50 G/A Between the BFG/Wissa? That was the only way we could replace the rat.

We wipped out a PSR window last season and this one is probably a free swing with the champion league and Isak money. Leaving us in a very healthy financial state and free to spend in the next few years.

Also do not underestimate how much Bigpig loves a transfer window and this one was glorious!!
 
Bigpig said:
There’s no need for a welfare check.

Bigpig is perfectly happy with the Business Newcastle have completed in the summer. It’s better the Rat showed his teeth before Bigpig named a pet after him or something.

Bigpig knows PSR is real and others keep suggesting that how much a big sale is beneficial. Well we only went and sold a rat to Liverpool for the biggest ever British fee :D

after getting battered in our Striker search all summer we somehow came out of this Drama still intact and two very good signings.

What is it nearly 50 G/A Between the BFG/Wissa? That was the only way we could replace the rat.

We wipped out a PSR window last season and this one is probably a free swing with the champion league and Isak money. Leaving us in a very healthy financial state and free to spend in the next few years.

Also do not underestimate how much Bigpig loves a transfer window and this one was glorious!!
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I love how you talk about yourself in the 3rd person :cry: :cry: :cry:
 
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