Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread

Are there any bean-to-cup machines which make a decent espresso? (without needing to spend silly money)

I've had a cheap & cheerful De'Longhi "ESAM2600" for the last 6 years, and I love the convenience of just pushing the button and getting coffee (especially when bleary eyed and half asleep first thing in the morning :p), but while it's certainly drinkable, it's never as nice as an espresso from a decent coffee shop. I've tried various beans from Hormozi & Wogans (plus a few others), so I don't think it's the beans that are the issue.

If bean-to-cup isn't going to cut it, what's the simplest/quickest method/machine to get a good "proper" espresso? Don't need anything else e.g. milk wand, ability to make longer drinks etc. (other half has bought herself a pod machine, so she's sorted!), literally just espresso!

Edit: Sage Barista Express looks an interesting option, I realise it's not fully bean-to-cup, but integrated grinder is convenient; looks like it can be had for £463 at the moment

Further edit: The Express can be had for ~£350 or the Impress for ~£400 for an "excellent" refurb on Ebay - thoughts on those?
 
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The Barista Express is a decent machine, but the grinder is not really up to scratch. I had one for years and loved it, but once I started to explore the slippery slope of grinders I soon realised that the BE's in-built one was holding it back as it can make really, really good espresso with a half-decent grinder.

Is it good enough? Yeah, kind of. But quite frankly a Duo Temp Pro or a Bambino and a decent standalone grinder makes for a better package, but then you are spending more.

Refurbs are a tricky area. As long as they come with a warranty and are bought from a retailer that isn't going to vanish, you should be okay. But generally speaking, lower-end devices like the BE have had a really hard life, usually run on tap water or similar and never really looked after properly and they'll have had a good clean out and then shipped off to their new home.

Given you, as the consumer, will probably never have used a brand new one it can be hard to discern if there are any inherent problems with your refurb until it is too late. I wouldn't touch them myself (been there, done that, saw the insides and sent the thing back) but YMMV.
 
Bean to cup is a compromise between convenience and quality, potentially. Separate espresso machine and grinder will be better quality (in the right hands, with the right equipment and practice). Also having separate allows you to swap one or the other as you want rather than being stuck with built in grinders.

I guess the question is are you willing to go to more effort for possibly better coffee (probably not at first btw!) or do you just want to cap a budget and get the best bean to cup you can for that?

I enjoy the process of making coffee but it does take a bit of time, especially if you are also steaming milk. So it’s not for everyone.
 
I don't mind a bit more effort, (to a point).

If we're talking 5-10 mins grinding/tamping/pulling the shot/clean up then I'm happy to sacrifice convenience for a much better coffee (I realise initially dialling in a new bag is going to take a bit longer).

If it's going to be 20-30 mins then that's going to start to get in the way of getting the kids ready for school etc. :p

glitch said:
The Barista Express is a decent machine, but the grinder is not really up to scratch. I had one for years and loved it, but once I started to explore the slippery slope of grinders I soon realised that the BE's in-built one was holding it back as it can make really, really good espresso with a half-decent grinder.

Is it good enough? Yeah, kind of. But quite frankly a Duo Temp Pro or a Bambino and a decent standalone grinder makes for a better package, but then you are spending more.
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There is someone not far from me selling a new unused Barista express on eBay, which I was considering making a lowish offer/bidding on, as a "cheap" option to see how I get on to start with, potentially similar price to a new Bambino, but obviously without needing a separate grinder (although you're saying it's not great). That's from a private seller though, so obviously with no warranty.

What about the other sage machines, e.g. the Barista Pro? Looks to have a better grinder? Or would you still recommend a separate grinder, in which case is the Bambino the best option at that price range? (The Gaggia classic in yellow looks sex but is ~£100 more than the barista express on its own and I'd need a grinder on top!).

As for a grinder - Sage again? (E.g. the smart grinder pro) Or something else?

I guess I need to look at getting some more plugs installed in the kitchen (apparently I need to buy a rice cooker as well, I knew venturing into this section of the forum was a bad idea...:cry:)

glitch said:
Given you, as the consumer, will probably never have used a brand new one it can be hard to discern if there are any inherent problems with your refurb until it is too late. I wouldn't touch them myself (been there, done that, saw the insides and sent the thing back) but YMMV.
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Good point, something I hadn't really considered - as you say, if I'm having problems, I'm not going to know if it's my crappy technique or a broken machine!

Otherwise I'm not in any particular rush, so i'll probably end up waiting to see if there are any decent offers on for black friday
 
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Once the machine has warmed up, it takes about a minute to grind, tamp and pull a shot when you have got the routine down.

What takes longer is to get the beans dialed in the first place for that bag of beans, and warm up the machine (anything from 5mins to 15 depending).

It depend on the grinder, the dialing in process could be easy or PITA. The actual shot pulling part, it's mostly just pressing a button and watch the timer/weight on the scale.
 
I have my machine on a smart plug and automation to warm up around the time I'm waking up so it's ready when I am.

Takes about 2-3 minutes per shot including cleaning, unless I'm dialling in, adding more beans or steaming milk, which then takes longer. I don't usually make milk drinks in the morning under pressure though! Also have kids to get ready for school....

I am using an old Gaggia Classic (I had from new) with some upgrades and a Eureka Mignon Specialita. I chose these as they are made to last and can be repaired and upgraded. I don't feel as though some of the newer designs are as good in that regard, but it depends how long you want it to last. I really try (and often still fail) to buy 'forever' things if I can as they are usually better quality and less impact on environment (and long term, wallet).
 
alex24 said:
I have my machine on a smart plug and automation to warm up around the time I'm waking up so it's ready when I am.
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Good idea, have a spare Tapo plug somewhere I could use

alex24 said:
I am using an old Gaggia Classic (I had from new) with some upgrades and a Eureka Mignon Specialita. I chose these as they are made to last and can be repaired and upgraded. I don't feel as though some of the newer designs are as good in that regard, but it depends how long you want it to last. I really try (and often still fail) to buy 'forever' things if I can as they are usually better quality and less impact on environment (and long term, wallet).
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You mean newer versions of the Gaggia Classic, or rather newer style machines? So the (older?) Gaggia machines are generally more robust and less "throwaway" than Sage?
 
I don't have much experience with new machines so take what I say with caution, but from what I know, all versions (except one short-lived model) of the Classic are quite repairable and upgradable. I don't see as much of a 'scene' around fixing and upgrading Sage machines, for example, but happy to be corrected by users here on that. Of course there are plenty of other options too and the Classic is quite basic compared to more modern designs but it's a trade off of cost vs repairability vs features and so on.
 
Haggisman said:
That's not too bad at all then, the warming up time isn't a problem as I can be doing other things then anyway
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Things that help with the routine.

1 - Set of scales, so you are dosing the same weight every time. A single dose grinder is best. CONSISTENCY is very important when it comes to espresso.
2 - Good tamper, not the plastic one that it comes with
3 - A knock box, keep things neat and not going far with a used portafilter with coffee dripping all over the place.
4 - A tamping mat, depending on your portafilter, it helps either tamp on the worktop or the edge of the worktop with a cut out notch
5 - Other coffee gadgets...RDT tool, funnel for dosing, a levelling / distributor...these can help with the puck prep.

I would say the 1st thing to get is a good set of scales. Doesn't need to be expensive, £15 one from Aliexpress.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
Things that help with the routine.

1 - Set of scales, so you are dosing the same weight every time. A single dose grinder is best. CONSISTENCY is very important when it comes to espresso.
2 - Good tamper, not the plastic one that it comes with
3 - A knock box, keep things neat and not going far with a used portafilter with coffee dripping all over the place.
4 - A tamping mat, depending on your portafilter, it helps either tamp on the worktop or the edge of the worktop with a cut out notch
5 - Other coffee gadgets...RDT tool, funnel for dosing, a levelling / distributor...these can help with the puck prep.

I would say the 1st thing to get is a good set of scales. Doesn't need to be expensive, £15 one from Aliexpress.
Click to expand...

So, shopping list:

Scales - cheap and cheerful
Espresso machine - Maybe something like a Gaggia Classic or Sage Bambino?
Grinder - Something decent, I've seen the Baratza Encore ESP get a lot of love, although it appears to be out of stock at the moment

Random thought - Electric vs manual grinder? Electric obviously has the convenience factor, but manual is more bang for buck, plus potential to take on camping trips to go with my moka/aeropress instead of having to buy pre-ground
 
Haggisman said:
So, shopping list:

Scales - cheap and cheerful
Espresso machine - Maybe something like a Gaggia Classic or Sage Bambino?
Grinder - Something decent, I've seen the Baratza Encore ESP get a lot of love, although it appears to be out of stock at the moment

Random thought - Electric vs manual grinder? Electric obviously has the convenience factor, but manual is more bang for buck, plus potential to take on camping trips to go with my moka/aeropress instead of having to buy pre-ground
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This one.

"Fuego Kitchen Coffee Scale with Timer Rechargeable Digital Scale 0.1g High Precision 3 Modes Drip Espresso Scale Barista Gift"

Google it and you will find it.

For grinder, the DF54 is where my money would go for like £200.

Manual grinder is a novelty for me, great for pour over where the grinds are larger, but for espresso, it takes more work as the grind are smaller and a lot of them are stepped...so it lacks the fine adjustments required for espresso.
 
The other stuff is easy enough to find so that really leaves the best recommendation for an espresso machine that still fits in budget.
 
Haggisman said:
There is someone not far from me selling a new unused Barista express on eBay, which I was considering making a lowish offer/bidding on, as a "cheap" option to see how I get on to start with, potentially similar price to a new Bambino, but obviously without needing a separate grinder (although you're saying it's not great). That's from a private seller though, so obviously with no warranty.
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A decently-priced and mint Barista Express will do you just fine, at some point you may reach the limit of the grinder and want to look for a standalone but it'll be okay for a fair while. I'm making you think the built-in grinder is useless, where it is far from that.

On that note, I thought the BE and BP had the same grinder in, but the latter gives you a little more options for steps... you still have to take the burrs out and fiddle with them to get the most out of it.

I loved my BE and only sold it to trade-up to the Dual Boiler. Oonce you start to look into the programmable options and all the secret menus, the BE will last you for years - even if, like me, you move to a better grinder at some point.
 
glitch said:
A decently-priced and mint Barista Express will do you just fine, at some point you may reach the limit of the grinder and want to look for a standalone but it'll be okay for a fair while. I'm making you think the built-in grinder is useless, where it is far from that.

On that note, I thought the BE and BP had the same grinder in, but the latter gives you a little more options for steps... you still have to take the burrs out and fiddle with them to get the most out of it.

I loved my BE and only sold it to trade-up to the Dual Boiler. Oonce you start to look into the programmable options and all the secret menus, the BE will last you for years - even if, like me, you move to a better grinder at some point.
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So assuming I can get it for a decent price then it's worthwhile as a beginner machine, with a view to potentially upgrading to a better separate grinder in future when I start to hit limitations?
 
If your aim is to for an espresso based drink, yes. It is a perfectly good machine, many people love it.
If your aim is for the best coffee bang for your buck but don't care what kind of coffee, then not necessarily.

Ideally, the first good thing to get is a decent grinder, because you can just make pour over with a £20 V60 from a £1,000 grinder if you want. It's still amazing coffee, and when it is time to get an espresso machine then you can take your time to research and get the right one knowing the foundation is solid.
 
Haggisman said:
So assuming I can get it for a decent price then it's worthwhile as a beginner machine, with a view to potentially upgrading to a better separate grinder in future when I start to hit limitations?
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Absolutely. Feed it good water (Waitrose Lockhills or Tesco Ashbeck) learn how to take it all apart and look after the internals (Home Barista forums have some in-depth tear downs and advice) and you’ll be making really decent espresso after a short while.

One of the main selling points for me about the BE is the physical pressure gauge on the machine, it really helps you to understand what is going on in your puck and I think that makes it a really good option to learn your craft.
 
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