The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread
- Thread starter randomshenans
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How much ERG stuff do you do? I find the same after the winter but I put it down to mainly doing ERG so my fitness is higher but I'm not used to the fluctuations real riding gives you. Lots of the hills around me require me to put out 350w+ to go up them. So you might be putting in a 5-10 minute effort and then coast for a while.
I've never thought it was the position, just the style of riding.
Think it depends on what you want. I don't think many people are using these bikes who actually want to cycle or get fit for cycling. They are like any other fitness class. Fitness for the health benefits and the sake of it rather than fitness for an actual sport.
I think I just don’t like feeling like I’m trying to sprint compared to being on the hoods with the front going up. From my reading it seems people either love it or use it twice then never again lol
Regarding spin classes. I’ve never been on a spin bike before but I’ve always imagined they feel like my fixie?
Regarding spin classes. I’ve never been on a spin bike before but I’ve always imagined they feel like my fixie?
Yeah, you need to use the emergency brake if you want to stop suddenly!
I think spin classes have helped my cycling fitness as it trains for short bursts of high intensity like a climb. Good for improving power output. I also quite like the music and variation. Keeps me interested and I find that I push myself harder. Maybe I need to try Zwift before committing one way or another.
This week I won a Peloton Guide. It's like a webcam on drugs (it's pretty big and heavy) that sits on your TV and you do strength or yoga classes with it monitoring you. I'll sign up for the free month, but I was wondering if Peloton do cycle workouts like we do in TrainerRoad or Zwift? I guess I'll have a look about. (And also, can you use a Wahoo Kickr with Peloton classes?)
Soldato
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Did a 30km ride yesterday (without pausing, lol) that had plenty of downhill / flats but the climbing was pretty brutal for me as I usually cycle mostly on flats .. the joy of living in The Netherlands!
Definitely pushed myself a lot more than I would have done riding out on the road (there not being any traffic etc. obviously makes a big difference there)
Going to look into the Zwift Cog as the front gear changing on my old bike is pretty crap (never really used it in nearly 20 years!) and I don't feel like sinking more money into repairing it as it'll only be used on the trainer going forward
Definitely pushed myself a lot more than I would have done riding out on the road (there not being any traffic etc. obviously makes a big difference there)
Going to look into the Zwift Cog as the front gear changing on my old bike is pretty crap (never really used it in nearly 20 years!) and I don't feel like sinking more money into repairing it as it'll only be used on the trainer going forward
I got my 2nd ever green jersey on Zwift, yesterday. My first was on a pretty much empty Makuri island segment but yesterday it was on, admittedly not very busy for Zwift, a segment with 74 people.
Watch out Madds, I'm coming to take your job.
Watch out Madds, I'm coming to take your job.
Soldato
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Which one? 10 ish second or one of the longer ones?
I've made the shock decision to not do a knee-jerk purchase of the Kickr Climb. Read too many stories about it breaking and feel if I want to get one I need to get one new just for the warranty peace of mind.
£240 was in the realms of temptation but I know my urine would be boiling over if it broke and I was out of pocket!
Hopefully they have some black Friday sales because I think it would be quite fun for free rides. So I guess it's just flat climbing as I work to upgrade my Aethos!
£240 was in the realms of temptation but I know my urine would be boiling over if it broke and I was out of pocket!
Hopefully they have some black Friday sales because I think it would be quite fun for free rides. So I guess it's just flat climbing as I work to upgrade my Aethos!
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Soldato
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I feel those are VERY luxury items. Those plates, or movement things I get, to simulate a more realistic ride, and heard they make it a bit easier on your bum.
Totally with you on this! Kinda why I race and TTT instead. Mixes things up, keeps me flexible/reactive to read races and therefore far more engaged & entertained. Also less of an issue if you miss days/sessions... Like now - hit a bit of a 'slump' after weather changed a month ago meant I missed some longer weekend rides. Other life stuffs going on, a touch of illness 2 weeks ago, so I had a reduction in mileage/base, then took things a bit easier when I could ride, other fatigue & time being priority for a little while (decorating spare room & building furniture)... But because I'm used to being fairly flexible and ad-hoc ZRL last week got an FTP bump!
Ramp test will usually over-read, especially for someone like yourself who can likely 'peak' power, just not sustain it... Either figure out how much to drop the FTP value (-10% -15%)... I usually found doing a ramp test the day after a pretty hard ride it would be more accurate, but a 20/40min test I'd usually need to do fairly fresh/rested for the same result.
Consider accuracy, don't be 'disheartened' to lose FTP when you're 'more trained'. You have to trust the trainers accuracy as you can't verify it. Yes it might be the trainer, but it could equally just be a bad day! Spindowns and 'feel' while regularly riding are the only ways you can notice your trainer playing up, like as you have after the Firmware update - but even if it's 'reading low' you need it accurate and consistent - no point comparing apples to oranges.
If you're judging your trainer accuracy over your FTP results months apart then you're really not going to achieve much - or be able to progress. It's swings and roundabouts, some days you'll be flying but test low, others you'll feel slow and test high. So without another way to verify trainer accuracy you might be best to do a few more tests and average it out. Control your variables (humidity, temperature and airflow will all impact the trainer). So do a good warmup and a spindown before a test. As for how to 'get back' do some regular longer varied sustained efforts and use those (with something like intervals.icu set your FTP a bit low and then let it push your calculated back FTP up).
If you're doing 20 minute tests and want to test better, focus on 10-15 minute efforts. You can 'train' a better FTP result, if that is what you're after. If you're doing longer tests for a more sustained FTP for something like Tri/IM then focus on O/U and Sweetspot. If you're after an 'easy' measure for FTP which you can repeat weekly around other training without carrying a bunch of fatigue then the Ramp Test. But you have to trust your equipment and control your variables. If you're getting stressed about 'losing 10-20w' from 2 isolated FTP tests months apart (with a firmware update between) and having an accurate figure is important to you, then do more of them, you'll have a 'good day' at some point!
I 'lost' around 60-80w FTP with trainer issues, lots of equipment messing around thrown in over months of 'hassle'. My actual power loss was probably more 'mindset' from that knowing my trainer 'bump' in power was false and that my trainer was playing up. Once I'd got things accurate again, reset at that low FTP, sucked it up as my new normal and built back up. I had to build that trust back into my equipment. The realisation was that I was probably never going to get near 300W like Imy trainer was telling me before - as I'm not structured enough to do those longer efforts, but getting to the point of consistently holding 255-265W over months+seasons I'm more happy. I certainly have times (like now) where I'm struggling a bit for form, while switching from more outdoor 'endurance' miles to getting my 'race legs' back. I'd expect an FTP test to be low - even with my FTP boost in a race last week to 263W my 'actual' for an hour long effort would be below 250W as I'm in a bit of a slump form wise to be able to sustain that type of effort (as I don't do much over 10min).
In my opinion... They're a gadget to mix up your general riding, really if you're doing enough of it to be utterly bored sat there, that some changes in gradient have a big impact to you (like doing many hour long IM/endurance training) then get one. So really think users have to ride a lot more to really 'benefit' from a Climb - as consider the specifics of it - it altering the gradient of your bike, so you can train more effectivley at those different grades. For 'free riding' and racing around general stuff on Zwift/etc they're a gimmick really nothing more - you don't gain really anything from it except some feel of movement. You've got to be riding enough sustained gradients to focus training/build specific muscle groups for it with something like the Climb (like seated 10% climbing alpine ascents) to really 'benefit' training from it.
I think the belt on them can wear out and slip, so second hand they're not without their niggles and can be 'something extra to go wrong'. I was pretty close to getting one last winter for the fun side of it, but it would also open the option of ditching my front wheel to use elsewhere, I'd gain some space to get closer to my screen/fans and better airflow. There's far better things to spend £200+ to make your riding more enjoyable than a Climb. Some indoor specific shorts/tops/shoes. A quality fan. Some other accessories. Bigger TV. A rocker plate. Some decent headphones. I would argue they all add more to your indoor riding!
What's the derailleur - likely needs a spacer on the cassette if it's doing that when on the same cassette on a wheel it's ok.
Thing is I've got most of the things to make indoor riding fun. Currently the rockerplate would be a no-go due to the space but the climb doesn't really take up any more space than the bike is currently occupying.
If it was <£300 new, I'd do it. But they said they'd knock £20 off their asking price, making it £240, but £240 for something that reportedly goes wrong quite a bit would really annoy me.
I suck at climbing but I enjoy the climbing rides on Zwift so in my mind, it would absolutely be worth it but maybe not quite worth it enough at the price for a new one.
If it was <£300 new, I'd do it. But they said they'd knock £20 off their asking price, making it £240, but £240 for something that reportedly goes wrong quite a bit would really annoy me.
I suck at climbing but I enjoy the climbing rides on Zwift so in my mind, it would absolutely be worth it but maybe not quite worth it enough at the price for a new one.
Its a funny thing isn't it. I used to do a fair bit of climbing and people loved having their egos massaged by the grading system at walls. It would be the equivalent sometimes of your FTP being 200 and magically randomly your FTP jumps to 280. People with any sense would say "hmmm, perhaps that grading isn't quite right" but nope, so many people just lied to themselves that they were magically a far better climber than they were last week and the fact that their still struggled on exactly the same "easier" stuff didn't twig anything.
Ultimately FTP is something I use to base my workouts on. If its wildly out, my workouts will be sub-optimal and I won't improve as fast as I could. If they are sitting at the right RPE levels when they are based on my FTP then its quite likely my FTP is about right. If they are so hard I can't complete them or they aren't giving the prescribed feedback ie. Z2 rides probably shouldn't have you breathing out of your arse then you need to reassess.
@Roady lots of good info in the post but I think you missed the point. I lost a chunk of power overnight after a firmware update/factory spin down.
I am not comparing my one off ftp ramp test result or even results over months apart. This was a sudden sharp drop and then monitored over 2 months and it’s consistently been down ever since.
Regarding ftp, my best ftp was set on the grade on zwift which is not a ramp test or a proper 1 hour test.
Also the drop off is significant and by comparison is where I was over 1 year ago. So in effect I lost any progress over the last year overnight!
Anyway, new trainer is all hooked up and now to test it out in a race session, time to get whomped and humbled.
I am not comparing my one off ftp ramp test result or even results over months apart. This was a sudden sharp drop and then monitored over 2 months and it’s consistently been down ever since.
Regarding ftp, my best ftp was set on the grade on zwift which is not a ramp test or a proper 1 hour test.
Also the drop off is significant and by comparison is where I was over 1 year ago. So in effect I lost any progress over the last year overnight!
Anyway, new trainer is all hooked up and now to test it out in a race session, time to get whomped and humbled.
Spot on. Really FTP is nothing more than a 'training measurement' which training sessions are based on. It should be your Threshold at which your body can sustain the lactate being produced without overloading, so really you're testing your 60 minute power average when at your LTHR (the average heartrate over a 60 min effort). One is a measure of power one of HR.
The way our bodies work - or more specifically the 'HR zones' we have and work at. There are different training adaptations which can be done at each zone, each with different benefits - some at the cost of others!
Ah - yeah sorry my reading of your FTP tests as being the measure you where using. Sorry! Goodluck with the new one, do some 'base' rides and see how it goes. If it's new (or even reconditioned) it may take it a little while to run and bed in before it's 99% accurate. I dare say a 'new' trainer out the box straight into an FTP test will be different to doing one after doing 100km (2-3 hours) of varied riding on it first. Like bedding anything mechnical in. So again really this is me trying to say 'don't stress'! Settle in and learn to regain your faith in your equipment, even if the first couple of rides (& tests) are underwhelming.
Not saying you didn't 'lose' a chunk, but if the trainer was gradually losing resistance before - then you might have had some 'false gains' and all the firmware update did was reset those & calibrate your trainer.
As it's a Wahoo, then it's based off a flywheel driving basically an electronic motor. It measures your 'input' into turning that known flywheel weight against the motor and calculates your 'power'. You have a whole mechnical drivechain of the bike and then the trainer with the flywheel driving a belt against the motor in between you legs and that measurement. That's why 'warming' up the trainer is important before a spin-down calibration. Temperature matters. My Kickr v5 can see some wild swings in the freezing cold garage that catches the sun on it's flat roof in the afternoons.
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Well.. that's just not in the spirit of this thread or cycling on the whole, I believe. I'm disappointed in you tbh.