Poll: DIGITAL ID - It's coming *** NO GENERAL POLITICS TALK - ONE AND ONLY WARNING ***

Are you for or against the new Digital ID

  • For

  • Against

  • Pancake

Results are only viewable after voting.
If it were true it would be a matter of public record and you could check it on gov.uk.

Edit: as far as I can see they are a tech skills training company for workers - doesn’t seem legit.

Who ever does get the contract will inevitably be one of the companies that already maintains the existing infrastructure for the home office because it will need to be integrated with those existing systems to actually work.
 
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They need more exposure of the purpose here - it’s not to, or going to stop the boats, it’s to assist in removing illeglals.

They will however have to enforce mandatory carry of your card, for when the inevitable border force raids increase. They can’t legally stop the boats, so the next part is removing people who got here.
 
stuman said:
They need more exposure of the purpose here - it’s not to, or going to stop the boats, it’s to assist in removing illeglals.

They will however have to enforce mandatory carry of your card, for when the inevitable border force raids increase. They can’t legally stop the boats, so the next part is removing people who got here.
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How is it going to assist in deporting illegals? It is just a waste of time. Anyone who is hiring legally will ask for right to work and NI etc.

Anyone who is employing illegals will continue to do so.
 
adam cool dude said:
How is it going to assist in deporting illegals? It is just a waste of time. Anyone who is hiring legally will ask for right to work and NI etc.

Anyone who is employing illegals will continue to do so.
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You are correct that dodgy people are going to continue using illegal workers but when it comes to enforcement I can see the advantage of such a system.

It would make things considerably easier to identify relevant offences in the moment (e.g. when they are on the raid or operation) and enable them to detain the relevant people there and then. If you don’t detain people in the moment, you will never catch them.

Under the status quo, the ‘illegal’ would likely have absconded while you sift through reams and reams of paperwork.

Don’t forget, the ‘illegal’ person could give the details of a legitimate person and short of detaining them (which you can’t do indefinitely), you’ve got a problem to sort out.

Let’s also be realistic, people who are actually illegal are not those coming over on boats, they pretty much all enter the asylum system.

It’s typically characterised as people coming here legally with the relevant visa and either overstaying or breaching the terms of said visa and a small number of small boat arrivals who have absconded and/or try to work while their claim is being processed.
 
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When the government shows it has the ability to actually remove people that have no right to stay in this country, maybe we could come back to the conversation of a digital ID having some sort of benefit around the impact it could have on illegal immigration.

Edit: not a pathetic drip feed after multiple costly court interventions.
 
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Fubsy said:
When the government shows it has the ability to actually remove people that have no right to stay in this country, maybe we could come back to the conversation of a digital ID having some sort of benefit around the impact it could have on illegal immigration.

Edit: not a pathetic drip feed after multiple costly court interventions.
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Very valid point tbh! We could have all the controls in the world but they're utterly useless if theyre not going to actually be enforced.
 
aVdub said:
Not that I trust anything from labour, I am one that would welcome an ID card and hopefully one that will hold more information, like illness, blood type, ICE, allergies and the like, rather than just a photo.
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That's the problem, information like that is open for discrimination especially for 3rd party companies.

Imagine an insurance company rejecting your application because your Digital ID had your religion or the last political party your vote for? Or gave you higher than normal premiums because of it.

A person has blood type X, which can be high risk to certain health issues. All of a sudden they are spammed through post and phone from healthcare companies.

All this information in one place can be dangerous.
 
aVdub said:
Not that I trust anything from labour, I am one that would welcome an ID card and hopefully one that will hold more information, like illness, blood type, ICE, allergies and the like, rather than just a photo.
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Should we put fingerprints on their too?:cry:
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
Let’s also be realistic, people who are actually illegal are not those coming over on boats, they pretty much all enter the asylum system.
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Yes and when someone claims political asylum their fingerprints are taken and put on a Home Office database so they can be identified using a mobile handheld fingerprint scanner if they abscond or are caught working illegally.

b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s typically characterised as people coming here legally with the relevant visa and either overstaying or breaching the terms of said visa and a small number of small boat arrivals who have absconded and/or try to work while their claim is being processed.
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People who get work/student visas have to allow their fingerprints to be taken as part of the visa application interview. I know an Indian postgraduate student who recently had this done. That means that if they overstay their visa, abscond, or are caught working illegally the authorities can already identify them.

A national digital ID scheme in the UK would only be any use for detecting people for whom no official immigration records exist (illegal immigrants who came here undetected and have never applied for political asylum or a visa). These illegal immigrants often go to work in the criminal underworld/black market. For example, many Albanian and Vietnamese illegal immigrants end up working on cannabis farms etc to pay off their debts to the people-smuggling gangs. If they come to the attention of the authorities it will usually be after the Police have already arrested them for a crime.

Keir Starmer actually requested access to the EURODAC and SIS II databases from the EU earlier this year but they refused. The national digital ID scheme he wants would enable new data-sharing agreements with the EU to allow the UK government access to the EURODAC and SIS II databases in return for letting the EU access all our information in this scheme's database. Of course, that would mean that 27 other countries (the EU member states) would have access to the database our national digital ID scheme is based upon, which must constitute a serious additional security risk.

Getting access to the EURODAC and SIS II databases might sound good because it would allow illegal immigrants who have been refused political asylum in the EU to be identified and dealt with more quickly. But you have to bear in mind that a lot of illegal immigrants who come to the UK are undocumented in the EU because they know that if they are registered in Italy, Greece or Spain they will be returned to those countries if their asylum application is rejected anywhere else in the EU (Dublin agreement), so they often avoid being picked up and fingerprinted in the EU entry countries and only apply for asylum once they get to a country they actually want to stay in.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Who ever does get the contract will inevitably be one of the companies that already maintains the existing infrastructure for the home office because it will need to be integrated with those existing systems to actually work.
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Don't be silly. This will be a standalone, bespoke British system, with plain text passwords transmitted in the clear, like god intended
 
Maple Leaf said:
Keir Starmer actually requested access to the EURODAC and SIS II databases from the EU earlier this year but they refused. The national digital ID scheme he wants would enable new data-sharing agreements with the EU to allow the UK government access to the EURODAC and SIS II databases in return for letting the EU access all our information in this scheme's database. Of course, that would mean that 27 other countries (the EU member states) would have access to the database our national digital ID scheme is based upon, which must constitute a serious additional security risk.

Getting access to the EURODAC and SIS II databases might sound good because it would allow illegal immigrants who have been refused political asylum in the EU to be identified and dealt with more quickly. But you have to bear in mind that a lot of illegal immigrants who come to the UK are undocumented in the EU because they know that if they are registered in Italy, Greece or Spain they will be returned to those countries if their asylum application is rejected anywhere else in the EU (Dublin agreement), so they often avoid being picked up and fingerprinted in the EU entry countries and only apply for asylum once they get to a country they actually want to stay in.
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Do you have anything to pack this point up? (the sharing the digital ID data with the EU, not the refusal to sccess the EU's data which ironically we would have if not for Brexit)

You'll have to explain how this is any more of a secuirty risk than all of the other information we have bilaterial shareing arrangements for e.g. passports, europol, interpol etc.
 
This is the tip of the iceberg, next will be, for getting your driving licence going to the doctor going to school, then One piece will not be enough, and it will expand out to all facets of society. When I was in Canada you had to produce 7 pieces of ID for your driving test.
 
d_brennen said:
Don't be silly. This will be a standalone, bespoke British system, with plain text passwords transmitted in the clear, like god intended
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Can't be having any of that dirty end-to-end encryption, only criminals use that!

Uther said:
Do you not go abroad? You know the EU is going to start taking your fingerprints when you enter...
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Yep. 12th October onwards. I'm going to be thinking very carefully about whether I go anywhere in the EU again after my next trip just before this comes in - I miss it by 2 days.
 
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