Does something need to be done about dogs?

[ttaskmaster]

Then you are the exception that proves the rule. I don't know anyone else who is that vigilent.

In the 70s everyone where I grew up treated Rottweilers like people are currently treating XLBs, with Dobermans and GSDs close behind. They were devil dogs, bred to kill and only ever owned by evil men who wanted to hurt other people.
Then again, we also had lessons in school about how to behave around dogs, both strange ones if approached, and also those more friendly ones belonging to friends...

No, but then I don't have concerns over my female springer spaniel with my nephews who are about 3-4 and 2. Spaniels are generally bred to be submissive and fearful and to be none aggressive dogs.

A co-worker breeds those. She and her mum have a Crufts-style kennel together, as a kind of paying hobby. Ask her just how often she's witnessed or been the recipient of Springer aggression... The results are surprising.
Obviously they're not commonly like this, but even those cannot be completely discounted - Why risk it? Stay with them and have a play while you're at it.

Certain XL Bully's were deliberately bred for aggression and certain XL bullies were bred to be none aggressive. It's a shame the none aggressive ones are tarred with the same brush as the aggressive ones.

It's more of a shame that some people don't want to even entertain the idea that there is such a difference, despite the mountain of professional and scientific evidence proving it over the decades.

 

[Gray2233]

A co-worker breeds those. She and her mum have a Crufts-style kennel together, as a kind of paying hobby. Ask her just how often she's witnessed or been the recipient of Springer aggression... The results are surprising.
Obviously they're not commonly like this, but even those cannot be completely discounted - Why risk it? Stay with them and have a play while you're at it.

I know people with terriers and other dogs which can be aggressive too, the difference is I'm not particularly worried about being killed by an aggressive springer spaniel. One might cause some harm, but it's unlikely to be capable of actually killing a fit adult human and there have as far as I'm aware been zero cases of them killing people.

 

[BUDFORCE]

I know people with terriers and other dogs which can be aggressive too, the difference is I'm not particularly worried about being killed by an aggressive springer spaniel. One might cause some harm, but it's unlikely to be capable of actually killing a fit adult human and there have as far as I'm aware been zero cases of them killing people.

Yup.

My kid was maybe 2 this old ******* bitch that used to live round the corner had this snappy little rat dog. It went for my kid in his pushchair, fortunately didn't get close enough as I went for this dog as it approached and it ran.

If I had caught it I would have ripped it peices with my bare hands in front of the old bitch.

She moved out of the village a few years after, guess she's probably dead now.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

The other 15% are lying. Everyone does it. You cannot tell me that as a dog owner and parent you haven't left your kids in the room alone with the dog. Perhaps if you have very young children but as soon as they are a bit older and you don't have to generally worry about them so much parents are always leaving their kids alone as they go and do stuff. Put the washing away. Hang washing outside, cook, clean, toilet, tidy etc.

I strongly disagree with this, every dog has a bite in it and I mean every dog. The report doesn't specify an age but say under 13, why would you feel leaving a child alone with a dog is ok? Complete madness in my mind, maybe that's why we don't have kids as I have high standards on what type of environment a child should be brought up in - gives them the best chance in my life.

Everyone is different, but leaving a dog alone with a child is unfair on all parties.

 

[ttaskmaster]

I know people with terriers and other dogs which can be aggressive too, the difference is I'm not particularly worried about being killed by an aggressive springer spaniel. One might cause some harm, but it's unlikely to be capable of actually killing a fit adult human and there have as far as I'm aware been zero cases of them killing people.

We're specifically talking about them killing children when left unsupervised, at this point... and the current UK kill stats include 3 Jack Russells and 1 Lakeland Terrier.

 

[DD_Crash]

I like Retrievers but even they have been known to bite.

 

[fez]

I strongly disagree with this, every dog has a bite in it and I mean every dog. The report doesn't specify an age but say under 13, why would you feel leaving a child alone with a dog is ok? Complete madness in my mind, maybe that's why we don't have kids as I have high standards on what type of environment a child should be brought up in - gives them the best chance in my life.

Everyone is different, but leaving a dog alone with a child is unfair on all parties.

The issue isn't so much dogs that bits, its dogs that can kill. I agree that every dog has it in them to bite but there are very few dogs that pose a threat to my life as a strong 6'2" adult. There are a lot of dogs that could kill a child very easily despite not being particularly big or powerful. Thats the real danger.

 

[chrcoluk]

Too many seem to only think in the extremes in the sense that dogs are either the most gentle thing going, or they viscous with a poor owner.

Not enough recognition of in between where a dog can have an illness that affects their behaviour unexpectedly, a hidden trait that doesnt show until later, that dogs should never ever be fully trusted, especially around children and the frail, and that most of the concerns are not against how often a dog might bite, but the strength of the dog.

I also question the motivation of some dog owners, as strong muscular with infinite latch traits dogs just happen to be a very popular choice, which leads to the theory that people are getting them to look hard or for security.

 

[potatolord]

We're specifically talking about them killing children when left unsupervised, at this point... and the current UK kill stats include 3 Jack Russells and 1 Lakeland Terrier.

Jack Russells are little buggers. I wouldn't trust them with a small child for one minute.

To be fair, we had one when I was a kid and me and my sister were the only ones it didn't bite.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Not enough recognition of in between where a dog can have an illness that affects their behaviour unexpectedly, a hidden trait that doesnt show until later, that dogs should never ever be fully trusted, especially around children and the frail, and that most of the concerns are not against how often a dog might bite, but the strength of the dog.

Most problems stem from people not understanding dog behaviour, or even that dogs are dogs and will behave like dogs.
A bigger issue is not understanding how our behaviour and body language will be interpreted by the dog. This is more of an issue with children, who are even less self-aware and think they can just grab the dog like a teddy bear.

But ultimately, the biggest issue is people not caring. They think dogs can just be programmed and should behave how people want, rather than how nature intended.

 

[RedMogg]

Jack Russells are little buggers. I wouldn't trust them with a small child for one minute.

To be fair, we had one when I was a kid and me and my sister were the only ones it didn't bite.

I still have the scar inside my top lip, from my gran's Jack Russell - it latched onto my face when I was two.

It's the reason I've refused a small dog for the Mrs - I've grown up with big dogs (Dobermans, Ridgebacks, Rotties & Vizslas) and know their quirks, far better than I do small, yappy 'orrible little things.

We agreed to hold off getting a family pooch until our youngest was big enough to push a dog off and understand the word "No" - I wanted a Vizsla, but Wife was wary.

We settled on a Cockapoo (hypoallergenic coat), but made sure to check the parents' temperaments and that the litter were reared in a busy, family home like ours.

Brought Poppy home on our youngest's fourth birthday and she's been a brilliant fit; trained really well, amazing, gentle temperament.

Our youngest daughter has taken more training (I think some families forget - and expect the dog to do all the work!) - four years on, we still have to constantly reinforce to our daughter about giving Poppy space and not following her when she takes herself off to her bed.

I doubt Poppy would show any aggression, but all it takes is for a child to ignore the "I've had enough" signs - it's not like dogs have any other method of communicating "bugger off, I'm done" than with a growl or bared teeth.

I'd love another, bigger dog, but until we know for certain our youngest can read the body language and leave it alone, we'll stick with just the fluffy nutter we currently have.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Most problems stem from people not understanding dog behaviour, or even that dogs are dogs and will behave like dogs.
A bigger issue is not understanding how our behaviour and body language will be interpreted by the dog. This is more of an issue with children, who are even less self-aware and think they can just grab the dog like a teddy bear.

But ultimately, the biggest issue is people not caring. They think dogs can just be programmed and should behave how people want, rather than how nature intended.

Don’t agree with everything you have posted in this thread - the above however summarises my opinions on dogs after having various terriers for over 20 years.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

But ultimately, the biggest issue is people not caring. They think dogs can just be programmed and should behave how people want, rather than how nature intended.

What kind of statement is that? Its not up to people to "care" nor to understand dogs behaviour thats not their responsibility, its yours.

 

[ttaskmaster]

What kind of statement is that? Its not up to people to "care" nor to understand dogs behaviour thats not their responsibility, its yours.

So when I warn you I have a nervous dog and ask you to give her space, you still feel entitled to behave however you like around it?

A friend of mine will tell you how Border Collies are absolute psycho dogs. Of all the dogs he's ever met, both times he was badly bitten* were by Border Collies. Absolute psychos, every one of them.
Then you see how he behaves around dogs he's never met before - Every time he gets right up in their faces, roughly rubbing their fur and talking baby language at them overexcitedly, and generally doing everything people are told not to do around dogs... and he knows he's being a dick but still does it.

How are attitudes like that my responsibility?



*He's been bitten by more than just Border Collies of course.

 

[Dis86]

What kind of statement is that? Its not up to people to "care" nor to understand dogs behaviour thats not their responsibility, its yours.

Hes describing something ive termed 'dog brain' with that statement. Its really odd but a lot of dog owners seem to develop it. They essentially believe its down to other people to adapt to their dogs behaviour and not their responsibility to control their dog or choose a dog that will suit the social scenarios theyre likely to encounter.

 

[Darkpilgrim]

Hes describing something ive termed 'dog brain' with that statement. Its really odd but a lot of dog owners seem to develop it. They essentially believe its down to other people to adapt to their dogs behaviour and not their responsibility to control their dog or choose a dog that will suit the social scenarios theyre likely to encounter.

This is 100% right a a big problem not just for non dog owners but also for dog owners.
I have a big dog ( German Shepard ) He is very well trained, We go to a local park where there is a big field and people with friendly dogs let them off lead so the can mingle and play with each other. Several times I have been there when so idiot walks their dog though the middle of the field shouting my dog is nervous and aggressive to other dogs tell your dog not to approach. taking no responsibility to just walk their "nervous dog around.

Normal people shouldn't have to adapt to their dogs behavior. especially if your dog is uncontrollable by you.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Hes describing something ive termed 'dog brain' with that statement. Its really odd but a lot of dog owners seem to develop it. They essentially believe its down to other people to adapt to their dogs behaviour and not their responsibility to control their dog or choose a dog that will suit the social scenarios theyre likely to encounter.

Right, so when someone comes up to me uninvited and starts behaving in a manner that would make almost any dog (and human, for that matter) uncomfortable, it's my responsibility and not their fault at all, yes?
You teach kids to always ask the owner before approaching a dog... so what, as an adult, entitles you to ignore this basic courtesy?

Several times I have been there when so idiot walks their dog though the middle of the field shouting my dog is nervous and aggressive to other dogs tell your dog not to approach. taking no responsibility to just walk their "nervous dog around.

Do you approach the dog, though?
Do you feel entitled to approach the dog and start interacting with it however you like?
Do you not think there's a training-related reason why Idiot is doing this... simply getting the nervous dog used to the environment, before progressing to more socialisation, perhaps?

 

[Darkpilgrim]

Do you approach the dog, though?
Do you feel entitled to approach the dog and start interacting with it however you like?
Do you not think there's a training-related reason why Idiot is doing this... simply getting the nervous dog used to the environment, before progressing to more socialisation, perhaps?

I of course did not approach the " nervous " dog even though the owner was marching it though a field of loose friendly dogs.
And they may have been trying to train the dog but that doesn't mean I want to be part of that training. if the idiot wanted to train their dog with mine they should ask not just do it.
Had they asked I would have been more then happy for me and my dog to help them out.

 

[ttaskmaster]

And they may have been trying to train the dog but that doesn't mean I want to be part of that training. if the idiot wanted to train their dog with mine they should ask not just do it.

So in a public place of free interaction, they have to govern their behaviour to suit your dog.... and by trying to stay clear of everyone, thus avoiding problems, they're somehow the ones with dog-brain?

Had they asked I would have been more then happy for me and my dog to help them out.

So presumably people who are scared of crowds and need acclimation to get over it should go round everyone in the crowd asking their permission to be there?

Get real.

 

[Darkpilgrim]

So in a public place of free interaction, they have to govern their behaviour to suit your dog.... and by trying to stay clear of everyone, thus avoiding problems, they're somehow the ones with dog-brain?


So presumably people who are scared of crowds and need acclimation to get over it should go round everyone in the crowd asking their permission to be there?

Get real.

If they had come to the dog field and walk though I would have had no problems, it's the fact they walked through a dog field with several dogs happily playing in it with an aggressive dog, shouting at the owners of the well-behaved dogs to stay away. When they could have easily walked around and not put their dog and ours in any danger.
If you have a nervous and aggressive dog, keep it away from people and other dogs.