Road Cycling

[Shadowness]

You say that, but a bit worried about their direction.....subscription software for certain features coming?
Even their new devices - not read much positive of the 1050, or the Fenix 8 Pro (mostly the silly microLED model). And they're getting MUCH more expensive too.

 

[f666]

Useful as well as slightly alarming to hear. The edge explore has broadly great reviews. Hopefully won't be something that won't be true.

 

[Martynt74]

You say that, but a bit worried about their direction.....subscription software for certain features coming?
Even their new devices - not read much positive of the 1050, or the Fenix 8 Pro (mostly the silly microLED model). And they're getting MUCH more expensive too.

Good point, i'd forgotten about the subscription part. Cost wise is also annoying. I think my Fenix 6x Pro was around £600 when it first came out, but my Epix Pro was around £950. Inflation doesn't do that much damage in ~3yrs

 

[Shadowness]

Yeh, my Fenix 6 Sapphire was £699 in 2019. I'm sure my Fenix 7 Solar was about £800.

A Fenix 8 Pro is £1119. 60% increase in 6 years

 

[Defy Belief]

Having used the free trial of connect+, it's absolutely rubbish - all I got was an AI readout of a summary of my workouts, which is all information you should know if you are actually training towards a goal / looking at your data points.

Don't use their live track activity as no need to, same with their coaching plans and found that they were very limited when I did one during the trial.

 

[Shadowness]

Having used the free trial of connect+, it's absolutely rubbish - all I got was an AI readout of a summary of my workouts, which is all information you should know if you are actually training towards a goal / looking at your data points.

Don't use their live track activity as no need to, same with their coaching plans and found that they were very limited when I did one during the trial.

Most AI summary things are rubbish. Strava is the same.

Ironically the Whoop one was the best I found (but I only had it for the month trial). I found that did present useful/interesting comparisons of exercise/health stats over different periods of time.

Strava basically says after a race - wow that was a tough ride, spending significant time in upper HR zones blah blah......Yes no ****!

 

[Roady]

Diff pros and cons, am leaning towards the Garmin for hopefully longevity of support and more third party connections and tools

Wahoo.

If you want a long term device, supported with new features even when it's 5+ years old. Just works. Very little fiddling required and any connectivity with all other apps being done through a smartphone app... But you day to say/general stuff not even needing that. I maybe only link mine to my smartphone once or twice a month to catch a ride which hasn't uploaded automatically to all of my linked apps over Wifi or when I need the .fit file. BUT DISCLAIMER - I would say my requirements are basic. I don't use it for mapping very often, have no live tracking requirements. Just want it as a head unit for data as I ride and the Strava/Komoot/RWGPS/TrainingPeaks/Google Fit uploads. I don't really use the Wahoo ecosystem and 'platform' for more than that.

I went through 3 Garmin head units in 3-4 years. 2 warranty replacements. The 3rd and final one although barely used it (kept crashing) within 5 years it was dead & wouldn't even power on (gave it to a clubmate).

My original Wahoo ELEMNT v1 bought in Dec 2016 was still working and getting new features in April 2024 when I replaced it with a BOLT v2. I'd been suffering with low battery life (<6 hours) but it had done 8-12 activities every week all it's life (commuter), I found info on how to change the battery but struggled to find the battery for sale. I messaged Wahoo support asking on the off chance they had any kicking around (as they used to supply them) and they said not. But as an apology sent me a 30% off loyalty code for a new Bolt...

Every single one of my 'Garmin' devices are now gone, replaced usually by a Wahoo device which I've found cheaper, more reliable and had great support when I needed it. Here's a list and the 'ages'). I would legitimately go out of my way to avoid Garmin devices these days and advise people against getting them. Their software & firmware is garbage! Hardware is good, but they tie you in. For a device company been making them for 30+ years there's no excuses.

• Garmin Edge 500 (1y) - 800 (0.5y) - 810(2y) - replaced with ELEMNTv1 (8y), then BOLTv2 (1.5y)
• Tacx Neo OG smart trainer (S/H <10 months) - replaced with KICKR v5 (3.5y)
• Garmin Black HR solid band (3y) - replaced with TICKR blue (8y), then TICKRv2 (1.5y warranty replacement & 2y)
• Garmin VIRB camera (11y) - replaced with DJI Osmo 4 (0.5y)

Funny how the only long term surviving Garmin device I've had was the VIRB camera they discontinued 3 years after I purchased it!

I will admit Garmin have a lot more functionality than Wahoo... Plus their whole ecosystem is nicely integrated together. But Wahoo do the 'standard' stuff better, with more reliability and more cheaply with an overall longer living product.

 

[fez]

They are a hardware company, not a software company. They generate revenue from people buying new units with new tech. Pretty standard.

I would disagree very much with that. They are 100% moving towards a subscription model in the near future. They are already a software heavy company, they just don't seem to care about it enough to make it good. There is a huge amount of software around garmins devices though. They are doing what all companies try to do. Tie people into subscriptions to have a stable revenue stream. The fact their devices are frankly absurdly priced doesn't seem to register with their desire to get a monthly fee from you too.

 

[grudas]

Looking at a new bike computer my old mio is not supported anymore and can't even connect to pc for track imports or extracts.

Garmin edge explore 2 but only one years warranty

Or

Wahoo bolt V2 or V3 which has two years warranty

Diff pros and cons, am leaning towards the Garmin for hopefully longevity of support and more third party connections and tools

coros, hammerhead and igpsport also worth considering.

 

[Shadowness]

I would disagree very much with that. They are 100% moving towards a subscription model in the near future. They are already a software heavy company, they just don't seem to care about it enough to make it good. There is a huge amount of software around garmins devices though. They are doing what all companies try to do. Tie people into subscriptions to have a stable revenue stream. The fact their devices are frankly absurdly priced doesn't seem to register with their desire to get a monthly fee from you too.

Fair, I should have phrased it around how Apple or such used to be. Their software heavily props up their hardware, and hardware sales. But I'm worried that they'll go down a Whoop model, or both. Buy upfront for cheap(er) with a monthly subscription. A very dark day that will be

 

[AndyCr15]

Also not entirely convinced by the AI plan either. Whilst i've been light on training recently and can understand not wanting to overload things too early on, i put in the Traka event in May 2026 and it's basically just told me i should do 3x 1hour intense sessions a week between now and then!

I forget what your Traka event is, but knowing you, it's something even Pro's would think twice about before signing up to ... so 3x 1 hour sessions sounds about right, no?

I told it I do 4 hours on Saturday and 3 hours on Sunday and it still had me doing 4 sessions during the week. I edited that down to 3 and often only do 1 or 2 of them... You do get to say somewhere how hard you want to push.

 

[AndyCr15]

On the cycle comp debate, they're still quite now, but I'm still very impressed by Hammerhead and their latest Karoo. They're just doing a 30% off promo if you can find someone with a K1 or K2 that isn't upgrading.

 

[UTmaniac]

We're at Longleat Center Parcs again, hired one of their ebikes again, went up Kingsettle/Tower Rd again yesterday that has King Alfred's Tower at the top... It's quite steep near the top! Horribly misjudged how far 51% battery would get me, ran out of juice for first time ever early on my way back, just about got up the two hills in easiest gear with ebike ~25Kg and me ~95Kg.

 

[Martynt74]

I forget what your Traka event is, but knowing you, it's something even Pro's would think twice about before signing up to ... so 3x 1 hour sessions sounds about right, no?

I told it I do 4 hours on Saturday and 3 hours on Sunday and it still had me doing 4 sessions during the week. I edited that down to 3 and often only do 1 or 2 of them... You do get to say somewhere how hard you want to push.

Erm 360km on gravel. It's relatively flat though with only 4000m. Expect to be around 24hrs which is a 15kph average. That's also the cutoff which seems a bit harsh.

I've paid for the 12 months now anyway, so will see how useful it is.

 

[fez]

******* cars. I am getting less and less tolerant of cars and drivers and I cannot stand how normal and accepted it all is. On the way to nursery and back(~2km) I saw:

- Every other car driving over 30 and zero ***** were given about 20s.
- I saw people take corners going well over 30 and some utter **** came within about 2ft of me and my boys in their pram because we have designed entrances to roads to encourage people to complete ignore the fact they are entering another road. The one in point is genuinely 3-4 times as wide at the entrance as the main part of the road and he entered the road completely on the wrong side of the road.
- People driving like ***** around a school with loads of kids about
- People parking all over the pavements completely blocking them so they don't have to walk another 20m. Its OK, I'll push my pram in the road whilst the other ***** are flying past at 30.
- Woman driving next to the school on her phone
- **** in one of those flat bed trucks (think scrap metal) who didn't want to wait at some traffic lights to come out of a road so just went on the wrong side of the road, flew out onto the main road narrowly avoiding another car and then proceeded to do at least 40 in a 30.

I hate it. I hate the pollution, I hate the attitude, I hate how society bends around motorists and punishes them a vanishingly small amount of the time.

 

[Martynt74]

We're at Longleat Center Parcs again, hired one of their ebikes again, went up Kingsettle/Tower Rd again yesterday that has King Alfred's Tower at the top... It's quite steep near the top! Horribly misjudged how far 51% battery would get me, ran out of juice for first time ever early on my way back, just about got up the two hills in easiest gear with ebike ~25Kg and me ~95Kg.

I've had that mistake before, although luckily my ebike is probably more like 18kg, although i'm around 100kg so similar overall weights! Just think of it as good training!

 

[Martynt74]

Adding to the Garmin/Wahoo discussion. Seems Strava have sued Garmin over some historic patent infringments which seem very minor and i don't see holding up in court.

Be interesting to see what the outcome is given i imagine ~80% of Strava users probably record activity using a Garmin device so it's not really a bear they want to poke.

 

[Shadowness]

Strava doing everything it can do be a complete **** it seems. Ironic as they are pretty much nothing without the data from other sources, most of which are Garmins.

 

[fez]

Adding to the Garmin/Wahoo discussion. Seems Strava have sued Garmin over some historic patent infringments which seem very minor and i don't see holding up in court.

Be interesting to see what the outcome is given i imagine ~80% of Strava users probably record activity using a Garmin device so it's not really a bear they want to poke.

From what little I understand of the issues its basically tit for tat. Strava have come out and said that Garmin want Strava to stick their logo anywhere that they are showing data that has been consumed from Garmin devices.

 

[#Chri5#]

From what DCR posted, Strava are digging a big hole with their claims over the Garmin logo requirement

Strava Just Sued Garmin: Demands Garmin Stop Selling Devices

Strava has sued Garmin, an act that I very much did not have on my bingo card for 2025. In doing so, they are demanding that Garmin cease selling effectively all of their fitness/outdoor watches, as well as cycling

www.dcrainmaker.com

As seen here and throughout the document, this does not require the Garmin logo. It simply requires that the platform note the source of the data, just like mapping and other providers do. In fact, Strava’s own mapping providers already require this.

The second piece that’s not quite logical is their ‘it’s your data’ argument. Since that runs entirely counter to the entire API fiasco of last year. Strava literally booted companies and your data off their respective platforms for that.

I let my Strava subscription lapse a few months ago to see if I'd miss it and I haven't really. I reckon Strava have got a bit too big for their boots of late and I still don't need AI "insight" to tell me I was chewing stem during a Zwift race.