Chinese cars

Capitano said:
Carwow just released a video of an electric car range test, very interesting results.
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How so?

They almost always end up getting about 80% of their WLTP range. Slightly less is the weather is bad when they do it.

They also always make a thing about stopping at all the services with rubbish charging to keep the an element of the audience happy.
 
nsmalley said:
And totally useless. it takes no account of how big the batteries are. Of course a car with a 90Kwh battery is going to go further than one with a 75 in the same way as an ICE car with a 100L tank will go further than one with a 60L tank. Carwow are getting bad for these clickbait videos now
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whilst I see your point , and effiency is important.... at the end of the day I am more interested in the cost of the car and how far it can go between charges than I am the size of the battery.

it is a slightly different equation than with an ICE vehicle where miles per gallon was more important to me than size of the tank.

that is because the longer the range of an EV the more likely I am to be able to charge it at home when I sleep on cheap electricity rather than stopping at a service station.
OTOH an ICE car will never fill up at home and generally the cost of fuel at one place is only marginally different to any other
 
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nsmalley said:
And totally useless. it takes no account of how big the batteries are. Of course a car with a 90Kwh battery is going to go further than one with a 75 in the same way as an ICE car with a 100L tank will go further than one with a 60L tank. Carwow are getting bad for these clickbait videos now
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It mentions the kw/mile for effiency throughout the video which matters as a metric vs just size.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
How so?

They almost always end up getting about 80% of their WLTP range. Slightly less is the weather is bad when they do it.

They also always make a thing about stopping at all the services with rubbish charging to keep the an element of the audience happy.
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Interesting that the RSQ8 Petrol despite being very high performance did so much better than the electric vehicles :cry:
 
Capitano said:
Petrol cars will always be better than these crappy electrics. Electrics wont even be a thing anymore once they make synthetic fuels a thing
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Have you ever been in an electric car?

The only reason ICE cars have a big fuel tank is because it’s genuinely inconvenient (and expensive) to refill it.

Synthetic fuel is never going to be cheap or less expensive than petrol. The inputs required are just too significant compared to oil and electricity.

The vast majority of drivers could fill an EV where they park it most of the time. A car is parked for 95% of its entire life.

I’m not worried if you keep your ICE car. You’ll soon change your tune when you need to start spending 3-5 times more than petrol on synthetic fuels. In the mean time, I’ll have spent probably 2 decades spending 8 times less than petrol filling my EV on my drive. Way to stick it to the man.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Have you ever been in an electric car?

The only reason ICE cars have a big fuel tank is because it’s genuinely inconvenient (and expensive) to refill it.

Synthetic fuel is never going to be cheap or less expensive than petrol. The inputs required are just too significant compared to oil and electricity.

The vast majority of drivers could fill an EV where they park it most of the time. A car is parked for 95% of its entire life.

I’m not worried if you keep your ICE car. You’ll soon change your tune when you need to start spending 3-5 times more than petrol on synthetic fuels. In the mean time, I’ll have spent probably 2 decades spending 8 times less than petrol filling my EV on my drive. Way to stick it to the man.
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Been in more than a few.

If you charge your cars outside of your house it almost costs the same amount per mile than it does filling up petrol, so it actually ends up being very similar overall. Charging at home however is cheaper of course.

Synthetic fuel you can use with existing cheaper cars, even if the fuel costs a significant amount more (which it wont forever as supply improves) most people can afford to pay that, instead of shelling out god knows how much on a new electric car. Not to mention the state of electric cars' batteries once they reach a certain limit. Already seeing older Tesla's that are now undriveable because of battery degradation.

Electric cars are fine if you have no interest in cars and all you care about is getting from A to B. If you're a petrolhead or someone who enjoys driving, petrol is the way. Most car people will never change their tune in that regard. ICE you can still buy cheaper vehicles with years and potentially even decades of life left meanwhile electrics seem to die after a much shorter time. When was the last time you actually saw an older Tesla model on the road? Probably haven't because the battery has gone kaput.

P.s just to add, I have no issues with replacing any and all diesel vehicles on the road with electric. Including buses, vans, trucks etc.
 
Capitano said:
If you charge your cars outside of your house it almost costs the same amount per mile than it does filling up petrol, so it actually ends up being very similar overall. Charging at home however is cheaper of course.
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I always charge mine outside the house as would have a hard time getting it through the front door. :confused:
 
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There is a huge anti-EV propaganda campaign funded by the oil and gas industry. A lot of people have been brainwashed to hate electric cars.

My EV has 72kWh battery, it costs 5 quid to charge it 100% on 7p night tariff. It does 250 miles with that amount of power. To get the same range on a similar size ICE I'll have to pay at least 30 quid.

The annual service costs 80 quid, an ICE service is 200 quid at least.

The electric motor has far fewer parts and works at lower temperatures - which means it is a lot more durable and doesn't need a ton of expensive repairs after say 80K or 100K miles.

EVs catch fire 20 times less often that ICEs.

"older Tesla's that are now undriveable because of battery degradation" - typical propaganda funded by big oil.
 
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I think it's quite obvious that these companies, making billions of pounds of profits per year in a single country won't just give their business away - but will do everything in their power to delay the transition to EVs, heat-pumps and other renewable tech. And they have a lot of money to put into it.
 
@Capitano There is a certain irony that you have picked on old Tesla’s as not beeing seen on the roads as their battery has likely gone kaput.

Pretty much every silly high milage EV on the roads is an old Tesla Model S. There are well documented examples of old Tesla’s doing 200-600k miles. To add further irony, they are the only vehicle which had unlimited milage warranty on its battery which lasted for 8 years.

Have you considered the reason why you don’t see many about is because they don’t make very many? The first mass market Tesla (Model 3) to land in the U.K. wasn’t until 2019 and hit high volumes in 2020.

As for synthetic fuel, it’s never going to be cheaper than what you are currently using. It also doesn’t deal with the pollution issue. It’s basically a non-starter for a mass market solution and will only ever be used in a relatively small number of niche/classic cars.

As for EVs not satisfying petrolheads, I don’t disagree but this group of people make up a tiny fraction of people who buy cars. Probably a fraction of a %. You are simply going to have to get over it or buy something silly like a Hyundai Ionic 5 N.
 
Capitano said:
Petrol cars will always be better than these crappy electrics. Electrics wont even be a thing anymore once they make synthetic fuels a thing
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This is the sort of silly tribal behaviour that was just being discussed in the BEV thread. Rather than a balanced viewpoint you take an extreme one, a car is crappy or great based on how it is powered/moved, if you honestly think that then I feel sorry for you.
 
SkyTerran said:
I think it's quite obvious that these companies, making billions of pounds of profits per year in a single country won't just give their business away
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if you didn't know it's the shareholders of those companies that have put some of the zev brakes on (they want to be able to pay our pensions tomorrow, bit of a dilema egh ) eg.
Wael Sawan, in his first annual meeting as Shell’s chief executive, and Andrew Mackenzie, Shell’s chair and the former chief executive of the mining company BHP, defended the company repeatedly against accusations that it was not switching from fossil fuels to renewable energy quickly enough.

Sawan said the company had invested $4.3bn (£3.5bn) in 2022 in low-carbon energy, including biofuels, hydrogen, electric car charging and renewable power. However, he acknowledged that was only part of its total capital spending of $25bn – most of which was on oil and gas.

The company asked shareholders to vote against the climate resolution, which was organised by the campaign group Follow This. The group has gradually won increased support from large investors in recent years, although it has not yet managed a majority.

Shell’s shareholders rejected the resolution by 79.8% to 20.2%, according to a preliminary count from the company. A similar Follow This resolution in 2022 also secured 20% support.
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another criteria to judge chinese cars on
with the increased software component of cars (at least consumers seem enamoured by tech in their ev's and ICE's)
the multiple videos showing tests of the chinese (byd & co) crash avoidance systems vs ze germans, showing them as woeful, speaks for itself;
teslas results working fine though, at least in the daylight tests I've seen (radar)
 
jpaul said:
if you didn't know it's the shareholders of those companies that have put some of the zev brakes on (they want to be able to pay our pensions tomorrow, bit of a dilema egh ) eg.


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another criteria to judge chinese cars on
with the increased software component of cars (at least consumers seem enamoured by tech in their ev's and ICE's)
the multiple videos showing tests of the chinese (byd & co) crash avoidance systems vs ze germans, showing them as woeful, speaks for itself;
teslas results working fine though, at least in the daylight tests I've seen (radar)
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Shell shareholders aren't bothered about the ability to pay pensions.
It's dividends they want.
What's that thrown about saying?
Shell have earned the equivalent of 40k a day since Jesus was born till today.
Probably more since the Ukraine war.
 
Capitano said:
Electric cars are fine if you have no interest in cars and all you care about is getting from A to B. If you're a petrolhead or someone who enjoys driving, petrol is the way. Most car people will never change their tune in that regard. ICE you can still buy cheaper vehicles with years and potentially even decades of life left meanwhile electrics seem to die after a much shorter time. When was the last time you actually saw an older Tesla model on the road? Probably haven't because the battery has gone kaput.

P.s just to add, I have no issues with replacing any and all diesel vehicles on the road with electric. Including buses, vans, trucks etc.
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Avoid pigeon-holing yourself, you'll end up eating your words like me :D. I'm not sure how old you are but now that I'm in my early fifties my thoughts on cars and driving has changed through the years. I used to be a diehard manual gearbox kinda guy, now I absolutely love an automatic. I used to care a lot about what people thought about me based on the car I drove, now not so much (okay, that's not totally gone :cry:). I previously thought EVs were a bit crap with their terrible range, ugly appliance appearance and some driver's holier than thou tofu aroma, now I own a nice EV and I don't like tofu.

A bit more partial to a Chinese now it seems.
 
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