Micro ATX Advice

nheather · Monday at 10:54

Hi,

I have a Home Theatre PC with the following

Gigabyte Z97M-DS3H (Micro ATX)
Intel i5-4690K
16GB DDR3

It is in a Silverstone GD04 so I am limited to micro ATX boards

This has latest Windows 10 but I can't take it to Windows 11 because it does not have built-in TPM or a TPM header

One option is to just leave it, accept that it is stuck on Windows 11.

But I also have the following spare components sat on the shelf

Intel i5-9600K
16GB DDR4

And am thinking that I could pick up a second-hand micro ATX motherboard.

Sounds simple but when I search on auction sites, I am overwhelmed, I need it to support the 9600K and TPM 2.0 (ideally built-in).

Can anyone recommend some suitable motherboards to look for?

tamzzy · Monday at 11:33

Are you happy with the performance of your pc?
If you are then I'd suggest that you don't upgrade.

Instead you can install windows 11 on your current computer with rufus.
Rufus allows you to bypass win 11 requirements and install on "non-compatible" hardware

Rufus - Create bootable USB drives the easy way

Rufus: Create bootable USB drives the easy way

rufus.ie

nheather · Monday at 11:58

It is an option, and something I might do. But one question about installing like this, what happens about updates - once it is loaded does Microsoft overlook that the system is non-compliant and allows windows update to work. Or would I need to do manual workaround with every update?

Plus, I have the components sitting around and it would be a shame not to use them.

nheather · Monday at 11:58

Is it a safe assumption that if a motherboard has a TPM header then it does not have built-in TPM?

Mcnumpty2323 · Monday at 12:52

nheather said:
Is it a safe assumption that if a motherboard has a TPM header then it does not have built-in TPM?

Yes most motherboards dont come with
The actual tpm module
Even if the socket is there to take one
Can't say i have ever had a board where you
Actually get the module

tamzzy · Monday at 12:54

nheather said:
once it is loaded does Microsoft overlook that the system is non-compliant and allows windows update to work. Or would I need to do manual workaround with every update?

regular windows update will work fine, the only "issue" you'll encounter will be when the major updates arrive (eg, 25H2 etc)

i'm not 100%, but from what i gather, to install these major updates, you'd need to do a full reinstall, ironically using rufus again :cry:

each major update is supported for 2 years, so plan to reinstall every couple of years

nheather · Monday at 12:59

Mcnumpty2323 said:
Yes most motherboards dont come with
The actual tpm module
Even if the socket is there to take one
Can't say i have ever had a board where you
Actually get the module

Not sure about that. On my main PC I was able to just turn on TPM and install Windows 11. Same with my son’s PC. Neither needed a TPM module to be fitted.

tamzzy · Monday at 13:01

oh, apparently you no longer need a full reinstall to do a major upgrade on unsupported hardware anymore. that's a bonus.

https://pureinfotech.com/upgrade-unsupported-pc-windows-11-25h2-without-reinstall-tools/

Mcnumpty2323 · Monday at 13:21

nheather said:
Not sure about that. On my main PC I was able to just turn on TPM and install Windows 11. Same with my son’s PC. Neither needed a TPM module to be fitted.

Yeah you can turn on the cpu tpm
Called ftpm on amd
And ptt on intel if I remember correctly
That's why people dont go buy tpm modules
To put in the tpm header if the motherboard has one

tamzzy · Monday at 13:26

firmware TPM has been around since Intel 7th gen and AMD Ryzen 2000 series, hence no need for a separate TPM module
(but that being said, win 11 isn't compatible with Intel 7th gen...only 8th gen upwards)

Tetras · Monday at 15:45

nheather said:
And am thinking that I could pick up a second-hand micro ATX motherboard.

Sounds simple but when I search on auction sites, I am overwhelmed, I need it to support the 9600K and TPM 2.0 (ideally built-in).

Can anyone recommend some suitable motherboards to look for?

All 8th/9th gen CPUs support a firmware TPM 2.0 via PPT, BUT you may need a BIOS update to expose those options, so I'd suggest checking the BIOS update list for Windows 11. In some cases, the Windows 11 compatible BIOS does not add any options, it just changes the defaults to make the install easier.

The following motherboards support 9th gen with a BIOS update:
H310, B360, Z370.

With no BIOS update ("out of the box"):
B365, Z390.

Technically, 6th/7th gen boards (100/200 series) can be modded to support 8th/9th gen CPUs.

nheather said:
It is an option, and something I might do. But one question about installing like this, what happens about updates - once it is loaded does Microsoft overlook that the system is non-compliant and allows windows update to work. Or would I need to do manual workaround with every update?

Plus, I have the components sitting around and it would be a shame not to use them.

From what I'm aware (with the systems I have): you receive security updates like normal. Feature updates (e.g. 25H2) need to be done manually, but if the update is only an enablement package (like 25H2 is) then I've just downloaded the installer via Microsoft and it flipped the switch.

nheather · Monday at 16:26

Tetras said:
All 8th/9th gen CPUs support a firmware TPM 2.0 via PPT, BUT you may need a BIOS update to expose those options, so I'd suggest checking the BIOS update list for Windows 11. In some cases, the Windows 11 compatible BIOS does not add any options, it just changes the defaults to make the install easier.

The following motherboards support 9th gen with a BIOS update:
H310, B360, Z370.

With no BIOS update ("out of the box"):
B365, Z390.

Technically, 6th/7th gen boards (100/200 series) can be modded to support 8th/9th gen CPUs.

From what I'm aware (with the systems I have): you receive security updates like normal. Feature updates (e.g. 25H2) need to be done manually, but if the update is only an enablement package (like 25H2 is) then I've just downloaded the installer via Microsoft and it flipped the switch.

Thanks, that is really helpful. So with the i5-9600K I should be fine because TPM is supported by the CPU.

Tetras · Monday at 20:50

nheather said:
Thanks, that is really helpful. So with the i5-9600K I should be fine because TPM is supported by the CPU.

Yeah, but like I said, do check the BIOS updates for your chosen board. If there's a BIOS update mentioning Windows 11 then you should be good. If there's no mention of it, then I'd look in the manual (or BIOS manual, if there is one).

nheather · Monday at 23:29

Question about BIOS updates.

If a board needs a BIOS update to support a 9th Gen CPU, does that mean that I would need an 8th Gen CPU in order to run the board to be able to apply the BIOS update?

Seems crazy, but I’ve read some posts suggesting that this would be necessary.

Tetras · Monday at 23:34

nheather said:
If a board needs a BIOS update to support a 9th Gen CPU, does that mean that I would need an 8th Gen CPU in order to run the board to be able to apply the BIOS update?

Seems crazy, but I’ve read some posts suggesting that this would be necessary.

I'd expect the majority to have a compatible BIOS at this point, but yes, that's a possible outcome if the board has an early BIOS.

Quartz · Monday at 23:58

nheather said:
If a board needs a BIOS update to support a 9th Gen CPU, does that mean that I would need an 8th Gen CPU in order to run the board to be able to apply the BIOS update?

I don't think so. Remember that the new BIOS still has to support the old CPUs.