Spain House Build - Building Started

So, after being told around the time of the above post that the builder expects the house walls to be up by "mid September", i went by yesterday and nothing has happened again. He's again blaming the 3rd party builders, and saying he needs to find some new builders to take over. I let my frustration take over, and told him i had been considering cancelling the contract since July and had been beyond patient up until this point but enough is enough and given the current situation i have no confidence he can deliver and how it could easily be another 2 months before he finds someone else to start the project.
It would help his case a little bit if he had at least delivered on the non build related queries, but it's radio silence on those too.

I got in touch with another builder i briefly spoke with back in July on the phone. Have sent him the documentation for the build, so will see what he says.
 
Cheers. I'm open to conversations with the existing builder but i think i'd want to amend the contract to include multiple financial penalties and compensation. I mentioned something similar earlier in the thread but never had the conversation with him as we started to see a little progress. However we've now really lost belief and i think it's better to cut ties whilst it's at the current stage than have any small progress.

The main concerns are around financing a new builder. Whilst we've not paid the existing builder a huge amount, there's probably an element we'd need to reclaim and who knows how tricky that could be. The bank will then only pay out at various stages and so we'd need to try and hope the new builder could self fund to hit the first bank payment. We have some cash, but not massive amounts
 
doesn't everything stop for the summer holiday in Spain ? if your developer is starting any new builds must have the same issue of finding builders;
couple of medium builders I know in uk have a team of people 15-20 and are doing multiple builds/renovations in parallel for the economy of scale,
and you can see what tasks are ongoing by their prominent builders signage, but it sounds like builders in spain maybe much smaller concerns ?
 
Sorry to hear this too :(

You are very much braver than me! I'd certainly want to bin him off and start by employing a builder to just get the waterproof plastered shell with basic electrics/plumbing in.. (i.e. drains, hot/cold mains, central heating pipework if needed, etc)..
Then I'd look at other contractors for flooring/kitchens/bathrooms etc..
 
jpaul said:
doesn't everything stop for the summer holiday in Spain ? if your developer is starting any new builds must have the same issue of finding builders;
couple of medium builders I know in uk have a team of people 15-20 and are doing multiple builds/renovations in parallel for the economy of scale,
and you can see what tasks are ongoing by their prominent builders signage, but it sounds like builders in spain maybe much smaller concerns ?
Click to expand...

Some does, but generally only ~ 2 weeks. There is a new build near out rental which has had had builders out all over August.

Demon said:
Sorry to hear this too :(

You are very much braver than me! I'd certainly want to bin him off and start by employing a builder to just get the waterproof plastered shell with basic electrics/plumbing in.. (i.e. drains, hot/cold mains, central heating pipework if needed, etc)..
Then I'd look at other contractors for flooring/kitchens/bathrooms etc..
Click to expand...

I think it's the whole "better the devil you know thing". Spain is rife with horror stories of builders ripping people off and this was the only guy who actually came with a great reputation. The issue organising it ourselves is when/if things go wrong everyone blames each other and with the language barrier and cultura differences i'd much rather have a single point of contract for any problems.

Amusingly the other builder i'd been in touch with and who said he'd be in touch in 2-3 days has now been silent for ~9 days!


Small update generally. I've been off work since the 10th. In the meantime i've had some further conversations with our current builder. He subcontracts to 2 separate teams depending on the build type. Ytong blocks go to one team and anything with double skinned thermoclay bricks and insulation go to another team. Seems it's the bricklayer team with the Ytong blocks which is the issue and just not doing what they're being paid for. Presumably because they have jobs they're employed directly for which are being prioritised. He's asked if we'd switch to the double skinner thermoclay build type with some compensation for the disruption. Then an agreed penalty for anything beyond March fined at €100/day. He's assured us that the other building team will put our build as a priority and has now confirmed he's having to remove the original team from his subcontractors and find someone else who can work with Ytong or just stop offering it as an option (i'm still not sure why different builders can't use different bricks!)

I've had a discussion with the architect who's confirmed the energy/sound insulation rating would be equal between the two (and sound probably better with the clay brick due to multiple layers/thickness). I'm waiting for details about how the foundation would be impacted as the wall thickness would be thicker and so the current base isn't wide enough. The only downside at the moment seems to be the overall size of the build, but given our plot size, this wouldn't cause any issues.

The saga continues!
 
Martynt74 said:
Ytong blocks go to one team and anything with double skinned thermoclay bricks and insulation go to another team
Click to expand...
both types have a similar external aesthetic then ? - I'd thought earlier pictures you'd shown with a light stone appearance was exclusive to ytong,
... and any cost differential between the two types dwarfed by labour cost I guess.
 
jpaul said:
both types have a similar external aesthetic then ? - I'd thought earlier pictures you'd shown with a light stone appearance was exclusive to ytong,
... and any cost differential between the two types dwarfed by labour cost I guess.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Both options get rendered so appearance is irrelevant.

As you say I think red brick may end up slightly more due to labour. Ytong is €6/brick and clay is probably around €1.70 each. Double that and add insulation and extra labour and it’s probably similar.

Been trying to find much comparisons between the two types to be confident I’m not being railroaded but struggling. Think I was sold on Ytong initially as it seemed “new and premium” but beyond the reduced labour and space saving I can’t see much arguments for it.
 
So. Whilst we’ve still not seen any building progress. There has been a little movement. He has formally now removed the original contractor from the project and said the new guy should be there this week. We’ll see tomorrow!

We got some new renders last week, but they were a bit rubbish. Hes got his daughter doing them so I did give some feedback and he’s resent some more relatively quickly. There’s a file sharing/access problem but I’ll upload when I get them.

I’ve also got an updated solar quote which I’ve been waiting on for quite a while. So nice to have something!

I’m in the UK next week and would be awesome to get back here and see something has happened!
 
Martynt74 said:
I’m in the UK next week and would be awesome to get back here and see something has happened!
Click to expand...

So i got back last Thursday and.........nothing has been done.

Had a meeting with him and the new builder. Turns out they now think that the original builder hasn't done the concrete base thick enough. They now have to arrange to widen the existing base slightly and pour another layer of concrete over the top with additional insulation. Frustrating that this couldn't have been assessed at any point in the last 2 months as the new builder was onboarded.

This now estimates that the project is extended to the end of April/early May. Annoying as that coincides with me doing a ~360km bike event up in Girona and being away for a week. I'd rather not ruin my chances by spending all my time prior to that moving house!

Apparently the fence is next week along with the addition to the base, then walls will now be up first week of December and the roof will be done by the end of the year. We will see!

Here are a few of the renders, as i say they're not the best quality and not on par with the ones we got last year, but at least they're a little more accurate in the design. They're also important as they clearly show the delivered plot/surrounding area is flat. Given there's already a drop off from the foundations to the ground and they're talking about increasing it. I keep reiterating that we DO NOT want any kind of drop off from the house to the surrounding plot. At least not for ~5-10m around the house

We're discussed further penalties. I estimate around €10k in total by the end of the project based on this. I've said we'll likely use that to add additional tiling outside. He's previously said around €60m2 as a price which i imagine includes some profit for him. If we go for around 150m2 of additional tiling it should work out. It sounds a lot but is quickly absorbed when you've got a big plot!

image.png


image.png[img]


(Gate won't be as close as it is in the above image and not sure we want that much gravel either!)
 
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Jeez, I'd love to self build in spain.. But I think when the time comes we'll just buy something done..

What a rollercoaster mate.

When its done and your in you'll forget all this pretty quickly.

So did the original builder **** up the base or does the new builder want to be safe.. Can you go back to the original builder for compensation or is that just another no reward stress
 
did you show us what kind of insulation/dpf course had already been created across concrete area ? or is there is anyway an additional dpf/skim/insulation sandwich before internal tiling
(if there weren't internal load bearing walls can you do that as one big surface)
 
mattyg said:
Jeez, I'd love to self build in spain.. But I think when the time comes we'll just buy something done..

What a rollercoaster mate.

When its done and your in you'll forget all this pretty quickly.

So did the original builder **** up the base or does the new builder want to be safe.. Can you go back to the original builder for compensation or is that just another no reward stress
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100% buy something! We've seen a few places we'd have bought over the last 2 years had they been available when we were looking. Our estate agent always said they very rarely recommend it to people but said that for us and our requirements it was likely the best option.

It sounds like the thickness isn't enough in some places. I think it's structurally sound, but doesn't have enough insulation to meet the energy ratings the developer offers. We always thought it looked odd as some places were thicker than others.

To clarify we're still with the same developer. He has 2 teams of builders he sub contracts to. He's just moved us from one team to the other, so all cost impact is on him. We're still fixed at our original contract.

jpaul said:
did you show us what kind of insulation/dpf course had already been created across concrete area ? or is there is anyway an additional dpf/skim/insulation sandwich before internal tiling
(if there weren't internal load bearing walls can you do that as one big surface)
Click to expand...

No, i've not seen that. I'm fairly sure something gets added between the hardcore base and the concrete pour but i didn't get pictures in between that.
 
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