Is it time to ban LED Headlights
- Thread starter Glanza
- Start date
You can drive any car anywhere temporarily. As long as it's normally road legal where you are and doesn't have some silly mods like wheels sticking out of the arches.
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Stop driving crap old Nissans and Chinese junk is the answer to that issue
To be fair the Chinese junk is not my choice - loan/hire. Problem with Nissan is I prefer their setup to controls and interior approach to most other brands - it just clicks for me and I'd actually prefer driving them to more expensive cars, but some areas, especially driving assists, definitely need work and anything touched by Renault is a definite weakness.
Soldato
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- 11 Sep 2013
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It's simple - Halogens weren't SO bright that I couldn't see past the glare, and I have pretty good night vision.
On a short 6 mile trip across town, I'll see a good 8-10 cars where just the dipped beam is still SO bright that I can't safely see the road ahead or the area behind. This means not seeing vehicles manoeuvering behind that car, people crossing the road, motorcyclists overtaking, and in some cases not even the road itself.
Halogens and xenons were bright, sure, especially on high beam, but their glare was still managable.
The problem is the same as if I shine my 3000lm torch directly into your face - Too high an output, badly aligned.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I don't think LED headlights are any brighter really than Xenon lights. The move to LED was more about cost and efficiency rather than even more brightness. Some of the poorest headlights I've experienced in recent cars have been LED - I remember driving the 3 Series in about 2016 which had LED headlights as standard at that point and the light output was inferior to the Xenon lights in my 5 Series at the time.
You can see this from the number of cars with Xenons fitted with headlight washers and the significant reduction since LED headlights became more widespread. Headlight washers are required on vehicles with headlight output of over 2000 lumens.
There might be specific examples of particular cars which have lights which are too bright but it's not fair to suggest its an LED problem. You could, if you wish, have fitted excessively bright halogen lamps to cars as well. Take a test drive in a BMW 4 Series fitted with the basic LED headlights and then tell me they are too bright
You can see this from the number of cars with Xenons fitted with headlight washers and the significant reduction since LED headlights became more widespread. Headlight washers are required on vehicles with headlight output of over 2000 lumens.
There might be specific examples of particular cars which have lights which are too bright but it's not fair to suggest its an LED problem. You could, if you wish, have fitted excessively bright halogen lamps to cars as well. Take a test drive in a BMW 4 Series fitted with the basic LED headlights and then tell me they are too bright
Soldato
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certainly they have some advantages over LED.
however efficiency isnt one of them, and i suspect that is one reason LEDs are so popular.
i dont see why an LED light cluster needs to be inherantly difficult to replace. our entire house lighting has been replaced with LED bulbs and they are just as easy to replace as any other unit.
sure the fancy intelligent matrices likely cost a lot more but just a basic LED lighting system could be just as user servicable as halogen IF the manufacturers chose them to be imo.
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Wonder if anyone has measured the cost difference of reduced efficiency vs the cost of replacement (talking £50-£100 per xenon bulb, vs somewhere from £800-£2000 to replace entire LED headlight units). Surely the balance would still be heavily in favour of xenon.
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Soldato
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that depends on longevity. if the expectation is the lights last the life of the car then it may be a none issue.
but again, aside from the really high end clusters i have yet to be convinced as to why a simple LED unit should be either expensive or a PITA to replace...... given no other LED module costs a huge amount to replace.
for the record i never had to replace a xenon bulb, and (touch plastic coated wood) i havent had to replace an LED cluster either.
have had loads of halogen ones fail on me..... the worse was in the middle of no where late at night BOTH my dipped headlights failed at the same time. Not only is it the pain of replacing them (you had to be double jointed to replace the bulb in my old nissan QQ, luckily one of the lasses that worked at my local halfords was and she did them for me
) but also can be dangerous when people drive around with one or more bulbs out.
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Totally agree with you, plus this idea that halogens are lethal in the rain has to be the most ridiculous statement I've read for a long time. In fact in all the years, some 53 in in all, I cannot recall ever struggling to drive with halogen headlamps.
I drive at night with either of our two cars, one is a fiesta with halogens and the other with adaptive led's. Not once have I ever been dazzled to the point that some of the more extreme descriptions in this thread or in that bbc article.
I rather feel there are some who either find driving just challenging or have some kind of hysteria over it.
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When I drove home from work yesterday, a 19 mile trip taking about 45 minutes, I was boring enough to count how many cars had headlights that caused enough glare for me to feel 'dazzled' - it was three. One was an old Mk5 Fiesta with super bright blue lights, presumably some dodgy retrofitted LED halogen replacements and the other two were vans that were so nose high they looked like they were attempting takeoff, so either hadn't been manually load adjusted or auto-levelling was knackered. Nothing else was bright enough or problematic enough to cause any issues with visibility for me at all.
I imagine it's the same hysteria as people express over front fog lights. I used to be the same, and I still tut to myself when I see someone with their front fogs on, but being objective, they've never actually affected me at all, no more so than seeing dipped headlights.
My GR86 has LED headlights. They might have a more distinct pattern and cutoff, but to be honest, I think the HIDs in my old GT86 were brighter - even on full beam.I don't think LED headlights are any brighter really than Xenon lights. The move to LED was more about cost and efficiency rather than even more brightness. Some of the poorest headlights I've experienced in recent cars have been LED - I remember driving the 3 Series in about 2016 which had LED headlights as standard at that point and the light output was inferior to the Xenon lights in my 5 Series at the time.
You can see this from the number of cars with Xenons fitted with headlight washers and the significant reduction since LED headlights became more widespread. Headlight washers are required on vehicles with headlight output of over 2000 lumens.
There might be specific examples of particular cars which have lights which are too bright but it's not fair to suggest its an LED problem. You could, if you wish, have fitted excessively bright halogen lamps to cars as well. Take a test drive in a BMW 4 Series fitted with the basic LED headlights and then tell me they are too bright
Conversely, our new CX60 has LED matrix headlights and they are fantastic.
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The worst is if you find yourself walking at night on a street where they've switched the lights off and you end up stepping on dog poo that somebody didn't pick upSince 2006'ish, they've been turned off at a certain time, in said areas. IIRC around 9PM. Which is ridiculous. What makes it worse, is these are coastal areas with loads of mist/fog where they're next to the beaches.
But hey, apparently it's going to save the planet
The worst is if you find yourself walking at night on a street where they've switched the lights off and you end up stepping on dog poo that somebody didn't pick up
Sorry that wasnt a dog, it was me and I couldnt hold it in
Bear poo?! What were you doing on the streets...
Got bored of doing it in the woods
The efficiency is just fluff. An engine is making so much energy it will make no difference. In an EV I guess you might lose a mile or 2 in range.
The fact they aren't servicable is either down to another dumb EU regulation, or manufacturers using them as an easy money maker. As it's none standard and you have to buy it from them. A bit like what they did with radios and no longer using DIN fittings, so your stuck with their sub-par, quickly outdated, but overpriced OEM unit forever.
Halogens are probably BETTER in the rain as the lower kelvin doesn't refract as brightly. LEDs with their 6000k bounce off everything, they are especially awful in snow and fog.
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Man of Honour
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Sucks to be a cyclist, especially those without decent lights, my auto beams seem to ignore them completely until really really close.
Soldato
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whilst it may suck to be a cyclist (though AFAIK my matrix lights work with cyclists) however a cyclist at night without decent lights......... most of my sympathy dissipates then! it isnt hard to get a decent set of lights (LED ones maybe
) as well as some reflectors on their jacket.
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Man of Honour
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It actually blows my mind how many people walk/run/cycle on the road without lights and in dark clothing, especially on roads without pavements.