The improved efficiency isn't really in reference to improving fuel economy, more about not needing ballast units etc. wasting space just to service the lights when you can power LEDs much more easily and achieve the same light output.
Is it time to ban LED Headlights
- Thread starter Glanza
- Start date
I'm constantly seeing it while driving home from work, especially recently after the clocks have changed. It's incredibly dangerous. A flashing red rear light isn't enough.
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,709
Xenons top out around 3200lm.
LEDs average 4-8000lm, but there's no UK limit and you can easily get 12000+ if you want.
They clearly are brighter.
The problem is the wider use of brighter LEDs combined with the bad alignment.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
So why did my 2015 5 series have mandated headlight washers yet a 2017 with LED headlights did not?
There are as many sources online arguing they are brighter as there are that argue they are not, so I am not sure how accurate the information you have is.
We do know, however, that cars with headlights brighter than 2000 lumens must be fitted with a headlight washer system. We also know almost every car with xenon headlights has a headlight washer system and most cars with LED headlights do not...
Some may be, others are not. The LED headlights on the 3 series were not as bright as the xenon headlights on the 5 series for example. I pick this example because they were both on sale at the same time, it's difficult to find direct comparisons as newer cars have LED headlights only now.
If they're over 2000 lumens, legally they must have a washer system fitted - the fact many cars with factory LED headlights don't have washers these days would indicate the output is often under 2000 lumens.
If you're talking about aftermarket retrofit bulbs, then a) obviously people could be fitting absolutely anything and they're already not meant to do that and b) those lumen claims are almost 100% certainly total horse****.
Or tripping over a kerb you didn't know was there, or falling off one and doing your ankle inThe worst is if you find yourself walking at night on a street where they've switched the lights off and you end up stepping on dog poo that somebody didn't pick up
Associate
- Joined
- 19 May 2010
- Posts
- 1,991
- Location
- Cheltenham
Lies, clearly.
HIDs also require ballasts, projectors etc which all add to the cost and complexity, whereas LED headlights especially on cheaper cars or lesser trims can simply use reflector housings.
I always understood it that it's a single light source. Most LED headlights are several LEDs and are multiple light sources, all under 2000 lumens.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,709
Dunno.
A 2018 F30 3 Series is rated at 7,500lm, but looking at some used UK examples I couldn't see any washers on quite a few. Some did have them, some had blanking plates in place, others were completely devoid.
It's an average.
Individual examples can be either side of that. My own Xenons were nowhere near 3200lm.
Then their alignment must be utterly ******, then and the Mfrs and MoT centres need to do their bloody jobs.
On the other hand, 1999lm is still pretty ******* bright and if that beam is being offset by dirty lights, it's still a problem.
Manufacturers never lie though, right?
Except that those who want to impress with big number will often combine high and low beam values, while those who want to undercut can state output per LED/chip rather than the combined unit. This is one trick they've picked up from other LED industries, although you'd think they'd pick up on the beam alignment tricks too....
As for testing...
"Do LED headlamps require washers / self levellers?
Headlamp washing and levelling systems are a legal requirement and required if the LED headlamp or high intensity discharge lamp has a luminous intensity exceeding 2,000 lumens.
If the luminous intensity isn’t marked on the lamp, a tester won’t be able to tell if these systems are needed. In this case, the headlamps will be treated as ordinary lamps and the vehicle can be passed as they don’t need washers or levelling devices fitted".
Customer service centre commonly asked questions – Matters of Testing
DVSA’s Customer Service Centre answers hundreds of MOT related calls and emails daily from testers and members of the public. Here are some of the most frequent questions and answers they’re getting from MOT garages.
mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk
So if you use unmarked bulbs/lamps, the regulations don't give a ****...
Both OEM and AM are a concern at this point.
An entire industry of virtually any and all manufacturers are lying about light output to avoid something that is a legal requirement, that they were already fitting to cars with a different type of light, that's a bit far fetched.
More likely the lights just aren't outputting more than 2000 lumens in reality.
I saw a funny thing on Matt Armstrong's youtube channel the other day (guy who repairs written off cars). He found that one of the light clusters on a Land Rover had the LED bar bit not lighting up. In order to fix it - apparently a common problem - he needed to replace a small LED all in one unit attached to a little PCB. In order to replace it he had to split the light cluster! As in, place it in an oven, heat it up, carefully prize open the front glass without breaking it, just to get to this little LED. Wowzers. These clusters are hundreds if you break them too.
earlier thread you can have >2000 lumens w/o washer as long as it is a sealed unit, but there are still limiits on the flux across beam area,
so you could push out 1000's of lumens where it had no chance of bouncing of a puddle or getting into other drivers eyes
so you could push out 1000's of lumens where it had no chance of bouncing of a puddle or getting into other drivers eyes
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 18,303
- Location
- Shakespeare’s County
you can not quote yourself as some sort of source.
The one thing that’s blinding to us all is your lack of self awareness
The one thing that’s blinding to us all is your lack of self awareness
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,709
If they can avoid it, it's cheaper to make.
But you're right, way too far fetched. Almost as far as the idea that any of 'em would lie about exhaust emissions....
So... car manufacturers are the bastions of truth and honesty, but anyone who makes bulbs for them are talking 100% certainly total horse ****?
Some of them most definitely are, whether AM or OEM (as many people claim).
Aftermarket rubbish sure, it's the Wild West and that's a totally different conversation but you'll need to come up with something better than "they're all lying about it" for backing up the idea loads of oem factory fit led lights are being illegally fitted at over 2000lm output without the necessary washers.
Or tripping over a kerb you didn't know was there, or falling off one and doing your ankle in
Or busting your nuts on a bollard which the council put in the middle of a path for "safety" reasons.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 12,709
So they'd never fudge the figures to get by on a technicality? That could and would never ever happen?