General Headphone Audio
- Thread starter garyfl
- Start date
They definitely do/can alter the sound, not necessarily improve it, usually due to distortion - sometimes that is due to the opamp not being fully stable in any given circuit.
Opamps designed for things like ADSL drivers and other very high speed ones often sound a bit weird with audio like the audio is slightly off-colour - I suspect there is some oscillation going on in most audio circuits.
My personal opinion:
The old school opamps like the OPA2134, NE5532, NJM4556/JRC4556 are more or less transparent but don't necessarily have the best noise performance, etc. and I always find they result in dull sounding music especially the 2134. A large amount of professional gear still uses the NE5532 or close models. The NJM4556/JRC4556 is tough to beat really - only really pushing it have I found some slight issues with articulation/resolution - if you've got some really high end headphones and a track with stand out female vocals the vocals will sound a bit like the difference between 256kbit MP3 and lossless when comparing to the OPA1612.
LM4562 (and related) - high quality but somehow a bit clinical and bright - excellent for gaming uses.
OPA1612 - personally I consider it pretty much end game - high quality, low noise, essentially transparent (in terms of fidelity you'd need a very high end setup to require better).
OPA1692 - similar to above well balanced but maybe a bit too neutral - sometimes I feel like some *sparkle* is missing (advantage over the 1612 is in low power applications).
OPA2228 - has a more organic/analogue sound than typical for opamps with some tube like resemblance - pretty sure it is somehow emphasising the mid-range slightly and rolling off the treble (not unity gain stable so can't necessarily be dropped into any old circuit).
OPA2227 - basically a better OPA2134 which does everything that does but with more engaging sound but lacks the performance of the newer opamps when it comes to noise, etc.
AD8066 - does something weird where the bass/lower frequencies somehow have imaging and soundstage that most other opamps aren't conveying, veiled treble, one of my favourites but it definitely isn't transparent - in the right circuit it brings the HD600 series to life in a way pretty much nothing else does.
Most of the other ones people use for audio I've either found the limits of them in terms of articulation or distortion or just can't hear any difference to the old school opamps with maybe some improvements to noise performance, etc. but nothing you can really tell by ear despite the hype from some.
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I am being sent these IEMs that seemed rather good on specs and styling, never had wired IEMs like these before other than the OG Senn IE80 from like 10+ years ago:
kiwiears.com
kiwiears.com
Kiwi Ears Septet | 1DD + 4BA + 1 Planar + 1 PZT Quadbrid IEM
7 Drivers, 4 Driver Types The Kiwi Ears Septet integrates 7 drivers across 4 different technologies, offering an unparalleled, technical audio experience. More Information... The Kiwi Ears Septet represents the latest in hybrid driver configuration, combining 7 drivers per side with four...
kiwiears.com
Kiwi Ears Astral | 1DD+6BA Hybrid IEM
Professional Audiophile In‑Ear Monitor The Astral is Kiwi Ear’s professional‑grade in‑ear monitor, engineered for music professionals and discerning audiophiles alike, delivering premium resolution and exceptional tonal balance. More Information... Every component of the Astral is optimized for...
kiwiears.com
I don't know how time flies so fast but I've been using the HD600 + A90 Discrete + Warmer R2R all evening playing everything I can that is vocal focused and the Warmer is an absolute beast paired to vocal timbre focused headphones and warm amps like the A90D. This feels like pure analogue harmonics but without any of the noise floor traits that come with old skool analogue.
And it is mostly thanks to the Warmer too, the K13 R2R doesn't feel the same way connected to the A90D and HD600, for example. So yeah, want incredible vocal performance that feels alive? Warmer R2R + a Topping Discrete based amp is the way to go.
They do have a vibe. I also don't mind the display lighting any more, seem to have got accustomed to it now after a day+
Saw on headfi the bit of story for the Warmer:
They are also making a headphone amp in the same style as well as a power amp as we talked about in the other thread. Should be a rather interesting thing. A FiiO rep also confirmed that Warmer is an exploratory product which they do from time to time. These are never designed with profit in mind hence why the price is so good. I guess they test the waters and see how people resonate.
Saw on headfi the bit of story for the Warmer:
They are also making a headphone amp in the same style as well as a power amp as we talked about in the other thread. Should be a rather interesting thing. A FiiO rep also confirmed that Warmer is an exploratory product which they do from time to time. These are never designed with profit in mind hence why the price is so good. I guess they test the waters and see how people resonate.
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appreciate this has been asked a lot but looking at the post above and the fact im in the market for a decent pair of Hifi-esque headcans I was wondering what the best approach is. I've been using a Fiio dac and a wired pair of Nura's which are significantly better via a dac, without any of their own software doing anything, however they are a bit tired now and there comes a point where you cant cope with someone poking you in the ear every day for 4 hours.
I got thinking what do I need, at home I have a hifi, if music is on, it's on that. At work I have a static desk and listen to about 4 hours of music a day, meeting dependent. The dac is just on my work desk.
With a flexible budget up to £1500 for everything should I consider an amp (or given im listening to what spotify is claiming as lossless through a dac) would that be wasted?
Have a demo of the Dali io8's next week (though dont need the ANC or wireless nature so feels over priced for my use case)
Anyone experienced with Focal?
The only real stipulation is they need to be closed back. Any help welcome!
I got thinking what do I need, at home I have a hifi, if music is on, it's on that. At work I have a static desk and listen to about 4 hours of music a day, meeting dependent. The dac is just on my work desk.
With a flexible budget up to £1500 for everything should I consider an amp (or given im listening to what spotify is claiming as lossless through a dac) would that be wasted?
Have a demo of the Dali io8's next week (though dont need the ANC or wireless nature so feels over priced for my use case)
Anyone experienced with Focal?
The only real stipulation is they need to be closed back. Any help welcome!
I'm about to buy the closed back Aune SR-7000. Worth looking at reviews of those. Those are my chosen "Closed Back". Well within your budget.
Thanks, I will check those out, images look good, I think that in reality there comes a point with the source/dac going on that spending a load of money probably wont return a huge amount of value to me, might be better spent on an amp/dac or saving it etc I was looking at the RØDE NTH-100 too which were £84 on a forest based website this morning as part of black friday.. which seems like a mad deal for what people say about them
I have a pair of Philips SHP9500. I've been running them with a v moda boom pro cable but this is not needed now due to getting a dedicated mic. I don't know much about audio.
I need a basic but good 3.5mm cable to go into my motherboard approx 1.5m would be fine. I don't need ridiculous prices but just something that is good enough and won't lose quality (aka well shielded?).
I need a basic but good 3.5mm cable to go into my motherboard approx 1.5m would be fine. I don't need ridiculous prices but just something that is good enough and won't lose quality (aka well shielded?).
I've now had the FiiO PL50 LPS with the K13 now and it's actually a noticeable improvement on my chain of gear. Soundstage and layering is now almost on par with the Warmer R2R, though there is still a bit more air between the layers on the Warmer, K13 bass extension remains better as it did before anyway vs the Warmer. K13+LPS combined is nearly Warmer price too, so I would say now the choice comes down to a few factors which are going to lean on personal needs/preference:
1: The display on Warmer cannot be turned off or dimmed
2: Heat, it's basically 50-60 degrees all over the housing lol, it is Class A after all
3: Tube rolling may not change anything as this is new territory for an R2R DAC using tubes for the buffer output stage
4: Still pretty deep so the need for right angled XLR and USB connectors and IEC are needed to make the optimum use of desk space right up against the wall like I have.
5: Warmer has the more airy organic natural sound signature, just without the bass extension hit that the K13 does so well. K13 is still wide and airy, but the Warmer just "feels" effortlessly musical and organic like as if it's not even having to try, like "close your eyes and you are there, enjoy" is what it's saying.
I don't know now which I prefer more lol, I like the K13 bass extension, but I also like the Warmer for everything else.
I have been toying around with prototyping a headphone design using the Peerless 50mm drivers with the goal of making it as cheap as possible to put together, no expensive dekoni pads or acoustic tuning foam etc. It is currently sized to fit the capra headband, built around £5 fabric pads from Aliexpress, and using a mix of 1.5mm and 3mm craft felts. So far, it's already looking pretty promising.
Orange is hd650
Blue is HE6SEv2
Orange is hd650
Blue is HE6SEv2
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Just out of interest is that the K13 R2R on its own vs the Warmer plus A90D? Or are you running the K13 as the DAC-only into the A90D too?
Certainly it would be very impressive if your impressions are just from the K13 R2R on its own. Although having to buy a separate power supply destroys not just some of the lower cost benefits, but also some of the small form factor advantages of the K13 on its own.
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It's a good question as each of the piece of gear in this chain has an element of colour to itm even though on their own they can be resolving, layered and also transparent in many ways, the A90D's transparency is there but it also has its own layer of colour that doesn't impact that transparency if that makes sense. I don't know how better to describe it, but if I use an example, if I enable any PEQ settings or processing mode on the X9 then to my ears it is very clear that everything about the sound has changed. Go to bypass mode and things are back to being natural sounding, organic etc. The PEQ on the K13 is the same, if I set up a PEQ and enable it, then the sound no longer feels natural to my ears, hence why I don't use any form of EQ or processing on anything but the LCD-5 because they sound so bad without EQing.
So for this I'm ignoring the K13's pre-amp stage entirely in my above findings and the A90D is doing all the pre-amping for both Warmer and K13 as it to my ears seems to be doing such a great job as a pre-amp transport of sorts based on what I mentioned above.
K13 on its own without a LPS still sounds great, none of that changes I would say, but it's very clear the Warmer is on a higher level of resolution and sound dynamics, even though it is just a DAC, and the exact same DAC as the K11 as is the K13 lol, so the hardware implementation, along with the tube buffer stage has a distinct and positive impact on the sound. The K13 with an LPS seems to bring those dynamics now to the K13, just falling slightly short in outright dynamics, but it's close enough that you could call it personal preference on which someone might prefer over the other.
A couple of people on my latest video have also said they are using an LPS (not the PL50) on the K13 and have also noticed these kinds of improvements.
K13 on its own, also as pre-amp still sounds great, but the A90D definitely has the edge as it's a dedicated fully balanced analogue amplifier so this would make sense.
So for this I'm ignoring the K13's pre-amp stage entirely in my above findings and the A90D is doing all the pre-amping for both Warmer and K13 as it to my ears seems to be doing such a great job as a pre-amp transport of sorts based on what I mentioned above.
K13 on its own without a LPS still sounds great, none of that changes I would say, but it's very clear the Warmer is on a higher level of resolution and sound dynamics, even though it is just a DAC, and the exact same DAC as the K11 as is the K13 lol, so the hardware implementation, along with the tube buffer stage has a distinct and positive impact on the sound. The K13 with an LPS seems to bring those dynamics now to the K13, just falling slightly short in outright dynamics, but it's close enough that you could call it personal preference on which someone might prefer over the other.
A couple of people on my latest video have also said they are using an LPS (not the PL50) on the K13 and have also noticed these kinds of improvements.
K13 on its own, also as pre-amp still sounds great, but the A90D definitely has the edge as it's a dedicated fully balanced analogue amplifier so this would make sense.
I should hope so, given the price of the A90D. But that was where my question was coming from. Knowing the difference amps can make it reads like there's a bit of diminishing returns. Which I think is natural, but probably reiterates how good value for money the K13 is. Albeit the A90D, or Warmer adds something. Cheers for the reply.
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Oh yeah absolutely, I would not buy the A90D based on sound alone as loads of amps/DAC+amp combos can sound nearly as good or a different flavour of good to suit a preference. I just liked the style and features of the A90D, build quality matches the X9 for example, the display is completely unique and unlike any other amp out there with the drilled LED holes, the interface is intuitive and it has the ins/outs I needed at the back so everything stays fully balanced. Main thing for me is the R2R volume controller and how premium interacting with the dial is so I don't miss not having the X9 taking up the desk space 
99.9% sure anyone buying the K13 on its own will be more than chuffed with how it sounds, and then adding an LPS on top makes it better still.
I chose to keep the Warmer on the desk btw and will get the K13 back on when the new LPS model arrives.
I can feel the heat radiating towards my face from the Warmer, Class A is no joke, this will not be a cosy experience in summer that's for sure, the Warmer hits 60 degrees all round, the PA7 power amp hits 52 in some areas, the A90D runs at around 48....
Meanwhile the K13 barely exceeds room temp, with or without LPS.
99.9% sure anyone buying the K13 on its own will be more than chuffed with how it sounds, and then adding an LPS on top makes it better still.
I chose to keep the Warmer on the desk btw and will get the K13 back on when the new LPS model arrives.
I can feel the heat radiating towards my face from the Warmer, Class A is no joke, this will not be a cosy experience in summer that's for sure, the Warmer hits 60 degrees all round, the PA7 power amp hits 52 in some areas, the A90D runs at around 48....
Meanwhile the K13 barely exceeds room temp, with or without LPS.
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Yep. I'm starting to think the K13 is probably enough for me. One thing it could do is the job of three boxes on my desk and simplify my setup. That said I did look at reviews of the A90D too and that thing also sounds quite intriguing, but I think I still want to pursue another tube amp at some point.
My office has already got too many electronics plugged into it so already can be too warm in the summer, so the heat comments regarding the Warmer are also bit of a put off. Particularly if I then pair that with a tube amp.
I would not have bothered with the A90D if the X9 had balanced input at the back, it only has RCA, and the K13 only has digital inputs, so using either as pre-amp for a fully balanced chain isn't possible sadly. I know the K15/K17 have a 4.4mm input at the back though which is odd, why not give full XLR or TRRS jacks?? Gotta use a 4.4mm to XLR cable for a balanced input, and of course one isn't in the box.
Even still, I think I'd be happy using a K15 as the headphones amp and pre-amp if I kept the Warmer long term, at least both boxes share the same styling and size so can be stacked. But I would miss the R2R volume control and the heavy metal dial of the A90D, perhaps this needs to stay as is then.
Edit* Here's some info on how the Warmer came about:
darko.audio
Even still, I think I'd be happy using a K15 as the headphones amp and pre-amp if I kept the Warmer long term, at least both boxes share the same styling and size so can be stacked. But I would miss the R2R volume control and the heavy metal dial of the A90D, perhaps this needs to stay as is then.
Edit* Here's some info on how the Warmer came about:
FiiO’s CEO explains why the Warmer R2R DAC exists | Darko.Audio
Per the CP13 portable cassette player, measurable performance is the last thing on James Chung's mind.
darko.audio
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