Motorsport Off Topic Thread
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Saw that, and thought how forward thinking.
Real new engineering not going backwards, making relevant advances and engineering achievements - meanwhile F1 are going backwards to V8's you couldn't make it up. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport. Imagine the number of jobs being created in wider industries that are needed, and the benefits elsewhere, but the money is a tiny fraction of what goes to F1.
Would you rather F1 became this then?
F1 just has an identity crisis and they're letting politics build terrible regs.
Formula E very much targets EVs and there's real consumer translation in what they're doing. WEC Hypercars allow a variety of engine configurations, which lets teams focus on designs that they think are relevant to their market and it still manages to create a pretty close field - also worth noting that they had the foresight to not offer a 50:50 split because they have intelligent people working there.
F1 regs: ~50:50 split but your main way of recharging energy is a petrol generator. Oh and energy management is so complicated and limited that every lap is a lottery.
That wasn't my point, it seems that the majority of fans wish to go back to basic v8/v10's and less depenance upon any forms of electric propulsion. Yet the argument that was being presented was that formula e seemed to be the way toward.
I don't watch formula e either, despite owning a ev myself, as I've always believed there is more to racing than just technology. I'm happy enough just watching lawnmowers race to be honest. That isn't to say there isn't a place for any technology but, unless someone comes up with a completely new form of power unit there isn't really many changes we can make with ice powered vehicles other than bolting on some electric add on.
I think we're at the limits of what ice alone can do.
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Pretty sure the other cars are avoiding the Dacia having just spun on the Karrusell.Go Dacia!
I think he meant "way forward" for FE specifically i.e. in the EV and EV racing space, FE have a clear path forward that aligns well with vehicle electrification. I don't really watch FE either but would be interested to see them get to a point where they were racing on real circuits.
F1 on the other hand just looks like a mess. Sounds awful, and nothing about the PU screams performance. I'd imagine that the commercial translation from F1 is in the performance/hypercar sector so a mild hybrid V8/V10 seems to make more sense and would be a better fan experience.
But then that isn't what I would call being at the pinnacle of motor racing at all and no better, in terms of technology, than any other hybrid road car.
The problem is that the ice has been more or less developed as far as it can go and has hit a wall.
Perhaps F1 should purely have v8 or v10 engines, then call it nostalgia motor racing. Oh but we have that already with the historic motosport races.
Perhaps we need to completely move on from ice, maybe there's always nuclear fission engines?
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Pinnacle will always be subjective, and then the manufacturers want to pretend that they're being green so it makes everything a bit of a mess. FE is easier because there are clear targets.But then that isn't what I would call being at the pinnacle of motor racing at all and no better, in terms of technology, than any other hybrid road car.
The problem is that the ice has been more or less developed as far as it can go and has hit a wall.
Perhaps F1 should purely have v8 or v10 engines, then call it nostalgia motor racing. Oh but we have that already with the historic motosport races.
Perhaps we need to completely move on from ice, maybe there's always nuclear fission engines?
I don't think it needs to be a raddicle solution like strapping rockets to the back of the cars (probably only allowed at the middle east tracks
) but the most standout era for me would be V10s - small cars with engines revving to 22k RPM and it inspired several production cars. Do that again with a mild hybrid so that they don't need refueling.I guess that would suit those with rose tinted glasses that think the racing would be better.Pinnacle will always be subjective, and then the manufacturers want to pretend that they're being green so it makes everything a bit of a mess. FE is easier because there are clear targets.
I don't think it needs to be a raddicle solution like strapping rockets to the back of the cars (probably only allowed at the middle east tracks
Then what would make racing better?
Caporegime
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V10, no BOOST mode. Pure racing
To clarify, by hybrid V10 I meant dual axel regen, no engine charging and no Mario Kart overtakes. Purely to avoid refuelling.
Keep active aero, keep the cars small.
I didn't say that, but what makes F1 "Formula 1" is the open-ended design philosophy dictated by the FIA regulations, not the specific type of fuel or motor(s) used. At the end of the day its is just a legal and technical framework. If the FIA changed the regulations to mandate 100% electric power, the series would still be Formula 1. The core ethos would remain identical: teams competing to engineer the absolute fastest open-wheel car within that specific rulebook, there is no rule to state anything about what power must be used, the only legal issue would be the rights for Formula E that are currently held.
If they want to keep the entertainment without the advancement, then I don't see the point in spend £100's millions per team each year on tiny minor changes to materials and wings, its boring. F2 is way more entertaining as you actual get a lot more racing, and it is almost pure driver skill, not team/car advantage. They are currently too scared to make real changes, and have some halfway house that isn't working that well, but going back to V8's or V10's is not the answer. Where is the skill and engineering talent needed there? They've been there, done that and got the t-shirt, let the best and brilliant minds work on new technology and make huge leaps and advancements in electrical motor design, charging technologies and all the other things, the teams would then really be competing as real advancements could be made. This is my opinion, don't need agreement or argument, just my view after many decades watching it, I look forward to the future I don't live in the past.
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Soldato
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I would look forward to the future but we've seen what the future is to the FIA, and the engines just keep getting worse. We should go back to "real" engines, we should have some noise, some soul.They reduced the size of the current cars, but they're still huge!
I don't watch Formula E, and I'd really prefer F1 did not go further down the electric road.
In the world of extreme cost caps and development freeze, what is the point of anything? Boring cars that run out of puff before the end of the smallest straight, that will take whole seasons to sort out if they aren't working right. 5000 meetings needed to decide if the weakest teams should be allowed to fix their steaming piles of excrement.
I don't watch Formula E, and I'd really prefer F1 did not go further down the electric road.
In the world of extreme cost caps and development freeze, what is the point of anything? Boring cars that run out of puff before the end of the smallest straight, that will take whole seasons to sort out if they aren't working right. 5000 meetings needed to decide if the weakest teams should be allowed to fix their steaming piles of excrement.
Well of course I can't answer that 'million' dollar question as I do not possess the necessary skills. I personally think this season isn't that bad anyway and some are just being a tad pedantic. I can see what the current regulations are trying to achieve but I don't think it has yet been given long to mature yet.
I also find the technical side of F1 fascinating and I don't see the point of F1 if it is dumbed down to formula e or f2 levels. They might as well pack up and go home. It is always interesting for me to see the ingenuity of car design and aerodynamics to circumnavigate any rules. But no team can turn up to a race with an untested part because of the limited time of actual testing has made that so. This is why any development now costs so much with wind tunnels and simulators.
Perhaps they should go back to the era of drivers just continually going around in circles testing this and that in between seasons and races.
But as I stated, ice has reached the limit of how far it can be developed and I feel that is the real issue.
Sure we could go back to v8 or v10's but don't expect the racing to be any better because in that era of those engines it certainly wasn't and seems only to exist in someone's head. The noise would be lovely, as they were, but all these changes since drs was first introduced has been an attempt to make the racing more 'interesting' because it wasn't.
Nurburgring 24 is underway:
Formation lap was brilliant, with all the fans next to the track waving, marshals etc.
Hectic opening laps with the leading GT3 cars bullying their way past the slower cars.
This is going to be a chaotic 24 hours.
Formation lap was brilliant, with all the fans next to the track waving, marshals etc.
Hectic opening laps with the leading GT3 cars bullying their way past the slower cars.
This is going to be a chaotic 24 hours.