Do you read the crap you write?
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)
- Thread starter Burnsy2023
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Do you read the crap you write?
Apparently it's the Remain campaign that's employing Project Fear.
Caporegime
It's official, the EU interferes 'too much' in people's lives - if the world's biggest cheerleader for the European Project thinks that then what's the real story? I guess the question is - do you trust this man, Jean-Claude Juncker, to reform the EU to interfere less in people's lives? I for one, don't.
Immigration debate... meh.
It seems to me to be a strange reason to vote 'Out' when there's a genuine risk that we'll wind up with freedom of movement via EFTA membership. Can anyone really say they trust the government to not concede on this point if the EU really pushes for it? And what price would you be willing to pay to avoid freedom of movement?
For me, there's far better arguments for leaving, just as the short-term financial argument is one of the worst for staying in. To leave or to stay, my choice comes down to this:
I strongly believe in international co-operation, in free trade, in freedom of movement among economically and culturally similar countries. I believe in consistent, international, laws on matters such as tax evasion, human rights, and climate change. I believe that together with our friends and allies, Britain is stronger.
However, I don't appreciate the way the EU works; the lack of transparency, the way it routinely puts bureaucracy above democracy, the way it has grown and continues to grow toward 'ever closer union'. The EU is not an organisation that I want to be part of. But, currently, it is the best option for international co-operation - the strongest economic and political union of disparate nations on the planet.
So, the question that I find myself asking is this; is it worth putting up with the EU's flaws, or can leaving enable us to begin to create something better?
It seems to me to be a strange reason to vote 'Out' when there's a genuine risk that we'll wind up with freedom of movement via EFTA membership. Can anyone really say they trust the government to not concede on this point if the EU really pushes for it? And what price would you be willing to pay to avoid freedom of movement?
For me, there's far better arguments for leaving, just as the short-term financial argument is one of the worst for staying in. To leave or to stay, my choice comes down to this:
I strongly believe in international co-operation, in free trade, in freedom of movement among economically and culturally similar countries. I believe in consistent, international, laws on matters such as tax evasion, human rights, and climate change. I believe that together with our friends and allies, Britain is stronger.
However, I don't appreciate the way the EU works; the lack of transparency, the way it routinely puts bureaucracy above democracy, the way it has grown and continues to grow toward 'ever closer union'. The EU is not an organisation that I want to be part of. But, currently, it is the best option for international co-operation - the strongest economic and political union of disparate nations on the planet.
So, the question that I find myself asking is this; is it worth putting up with the EU's flaws, or can leaving enable us to begin to create something better?
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Ditto, leaning very much towards it's not worth it, the fiddling when Greece got into the euro was blatent and the troubles forseen, yet here we are about to rush through turdkey and the gangs of ukrania, I don't fancy their police or courts having the rights and access of eu police and courts.
When was it agreed that Turkey would join the EU?
Soldato
I like how leavers acuse remain campaign of scaremongering aka "project fear II" but then happily do the same with immigration. Based on completely wrong assumptions as point out.
It's not going to even be hinted at until after June but if you can't see the usa forcing Germany to give the turks a biscuit for their deeds in the Syria hellstorm you don't recognise erdugruns body language,
He's already got what he was playing for, the thing turkey has wanted for decades and finally the Greeks are in no position to object.
Within weeks of the ukraine mess starting it was obviously a usa attack on the eu, the eu is the body being neutered and financially burdened.
Ukraine has nothing even before the war to add to the eu and could never, in the medium term, afford to change every aspect of their infrastructure or law to comply with our standards, yet here we are ignoring voters or economic interests and yet again doing the usa's bidding and buying their liquidised gas rather than "sanctioned" Russia, the obvious strategic economic ally of west Europe.
Yes and the Earth will implode if we leave
The poster you were responding too appeared to be interested in a gown up debate. I'm not sure a grown up debate is unfolding here.Most informed post I've read in this thread so far.
Soldato
Here's a question - would the Deal to be negotiated after you leave require treaty changes on the EU side I wonder?
It's be interesting to see any UK post-exit deal being decided upon by the Irish
But seriously, what happens if a Post exit deal gets scuppered - I've heard there is a time limit of 2 years to negotiate, before the UK is placed at the back of the queue so to speak.
Nate
It's be interesting to see any UK post-exit deal being decided upon by the Irish
But seriously, what happens if a Post exit deal gets scuppered - I've heard there is a time limit of 2 years to negotiate, before the UK is placed at the back of the queue so to speak.
Nate
Soldato
Here's a question - would the Deal to be negotiated after you leave require treaty changes on the EU side I wonder?
It's be interesting to see any UK post-exit deal being decided upon by the Irish
But seriously, what happens if a Post exit deal gets scuppered - I've heard there is a time limit of 2 years to negotiate, before the UK is placed at the back of the queue so to speak.
Nate
The UK wouldn't be "places at the back of the queue". The two year part comes from the point of notifying the EU of the want to leave and then finally leaving. However when Greenland left the EU they extended this to 3 years so that they could secure free trade deals.
Soldato
Ah ok - I thought it was part of the Treaty of Lisbon. 2 year exit negotiation, unless all 26 other nations agree to extend?
Nate
Nate
Soldato
Yep good point, Ireland in particular will be interested a speedy resolution. But since Britain is a net exporter of Services to the EU, I can see any negotiation being... robust.
EDIT:- Yes, I realise the Chart Below does not include Britain's Trade Surplus of Services, rather the goods deficit only.
Nate
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Yeah. Though the EU sucks at negotiating services deals (here) so we should definitely lead on that, and they can take the lead on goods.
Soldato
There is also the opposite - why wouldn't French and German Banks Lobby against the City of London enjoying unhindered export of services to Europe?
Nate
We do a lot of business in Europe and the consensus seems to be we'll be far better off in the EU than out of it. Obviously it's better to keep certain aspects at arms length where possible, though.
My gut feeling was to vote out, but realistically that's not a smart move, it seems.
My gut feeling was to vote out, but realistically that's not a smart move, it seems.
They don't, that's the point.
We are paying them billions to accept our unwanted refugees.
If they make all those refugees European citizens then they will all flood straight into Germany (nobody with another option would want to stay in Turkey)
(And they get to keep the money)
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