MK5 Golf Gti - Edition 30

[xs2man]

I don't think you are fully getting what I am saying.

they don't have the same power output, so you're taking my initial point out of context

It's arguable that the extra power of the S3 (265 BHP) is negated by the quattro system, and so on the road, the ED30 (230 BHP) and S3 may have roughly the same performance.

I get what you're saying here BUT:

why do you keep banging on about a mapped GTI against a mapped ED30?

YOU brought up that remapping a GTI would resolve the power difference between the GTI and GTI ED30.

I wouldn't say the extra power justifies the variance either, especially when a stage 1 map on a mk5 will address the power shortfall - the rest is just cosmetic.

I simply went on to point out that, if remapping was a route the OP was willing to take, there are massive differences between the GTI and ED30, and little difference between ED30 and S3 at this point.

as above re: context. an s3 is circa 265 standard, so how do you have the same performance when comparing like for like, i.e. mapped ed30 v mapped s3? unless you're really deviating here with power to weight etc to hammer home your point across?

Mapped ED30 and mapped S3 have the SAME power output. Just because there is a difference out of the factory does not mean there will still be a difference after a remap. See above for standard performance performance re quattro system etc...

why would anyone do that? why not simply buy an ed30 and map it. Again if power is the main goal here, its better to start off with a car with more power and loosely the same characteristics.

EXACTLY my point. Thanks. Purely in response to your "buy a GTI and map it" point.

and a map addresses the difference between an s3 and s4? I see very little point in buying a car and heading straight off the forecourt to AMD/Revo for when you can start off with a quicker car and be content with it in standard form

A map doesn't address this difference. More work is required to get an S3 to S4 performance. But my point was that if power is the main goal here, then suggesting a car with the same engine, but in a slightly higher state of factory tune, that costs a couple grand more, and has pretty much the same tuning capabilities and prices, is probably not the way to go about it. Go for a different engine altogether, that is ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful to start with. Or at least has a different tuning potential.

 

[Firestar_3x]

The main problem with an R36 is it doesn't feel half as fast as it is, which is a shame, takes away some of the fun.

 

[nas]

"as above re: context. an s3 is circa 265 standard, so how do you have the same performance when comparing like for like, i.e. mapped ed30 v mapped s3?"

The engine in the Ed30 is virtually identical to the S3, after remapping both they're pretty much on par at 300bhp, even if the S3 started off in a higher state of tune.

I'd still take the s3 over the golf - I'd reckon the s3 would edge it unless the Golf has a DSG box. Though the point is aimed at purchasing a car with suitable power in the first instance without having the desire to tune instantly it.

 

[Kenai]

I'd still take the s3 over the golf - I'd reckon the s3 would edge it unless the Golf has a DSG box. Though the point is aimed at purchasing a car with suitable power in the first instance without having the desire to tune instantly it.

It would edge it off the line because it has Quattro and the Golf is FWD but from a 30mph roll they'd be virtually identical, as they'd both be FWD, the S3 is only Haldex I think so wouldn't be permanently 4wd with associated losses.

I personally wouldn't be too worried about stumping up the extra just for Haldex.

Regardless, your comments about just buying a more powerful car are misguided I think. With no warranty etc. to worry about, the mapping potential of these 2.0TSI engines is half their appeal. People like them BECAUSE you can map them and get more for your money, you seem to view it entirely opposite as if you have to map them to make the car worth it and so ought to look elsewhere.

It's like overclocking really, buy cheaper, tune for more rather than just spending more on the expensive faster model.

 

[nas]

I don't think you are fully getting what I am saying.



It's arguable that the extra power of the S3 (265 BHP) is negated by the quattro system, and so on the road, the ED30 (230 BHP) and S3 may have roughly the same performance.

I get what you're saying here BUT:



YOU brought up that remapping a GTI would resolve the power difference between the GTI and GTI ED30. it would, yes. See further comments below



I simply went on to point out that, if remapping was a route the OP was willing to take, there are massive differences between the GTI and ED30, and little difference between ED30 and S3 at this point. exactly - spend a little extra and buy an s3 or spend grands less on a well looked after mk5. ED30's are close enough price wise to an extent to make them comparable.



Mapped ED30 and mapped S3 have the SAME power output. Just because there is a difference out of the factory does not mean there will still be a difference after a remap. See above for standard performance performance re quattro system etc...

same response as to kenai

EXACTLY my point. Thanks. Purely in response to your "buy a GTI and map it" point.walked right into it, thats a daft thing to do - if the cost of a map was similar to the cost variance between a mk5 and ed30 then yes, your point would stand in my view



A map doesn't address this difference. More work is required to get an S3 to S4 performance. But my point was that if power is the main goal here, then suggesting a car with the same engine, but in a slightly higher state of factory tune, that costs a couple grand more, and has pretty much the same tuning capabilities and prices, is probably not the way to go about it. Go for a different engine altogether, that is ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful to start with. Or at least has a different tuning potential.think its best to just agree to disagree here rather than hijack this thread, enjoy your new car.

 

[MissChief]

Yay quote wars! Love them!

 

[nas]

Yay quote wars! Love them!

lol me too, but usually better to watch

 

[xs2man]

Not convinced S3's are close enough in price to ED30's though. ED30's sit pretty much in the middle between mk5 GTI's and S3's as far as I can tell, since I have been actually looking at all options. Which is pretty much the basis of my whole point. There is a couple grand difference between an ED30 and an S3, so it's not insignificant, or simply the cost of the map.

I now see where you're coming from, obviously thinking the ED30 and S3 are worth about the same. And if they were, I'd agree with you in reality. Same money for 4wd and bigger brakes and intercooler, no brainer. Sadly, at least within 150 miles of me, that is not the case.

 

[Walkerie]

Wow. Cant believe what I started.

Maybe I should just keep the cupra 1p and map it then?

 

[xs2man]

Lol.

That's what I would do first anyway. Might peak your interest in the car again. At least for the short term, if not longer.

 

[Walkerie]

Im not disintersted in the car just always wanting more.

The noise is a major let down. The induction noise is lovely but bugger all from the exhaust

 

[MissChief]

So get a turbo back exhaust and map it?

 

[xs2man]

Yep, turbo back and a remap. Should be around 310-330 hp according to R-Tech with that sort of mods.

 

[Walkerie]

If I had a grand to spare I would. Will keep saving the pennies

 

[zain]

You never mentioned a budget?

Hoping not to repeat; the advantage of the Ed30 over an S3 is weight and cost. If you ever remap an Ed30 though you'll need a LSD.

Very rare the 8P S3 was actually 265bhp, most were close to 290-300. A remap would send it to 350-360 easily.

They're both nice places to be but the S3 is overall better.

 

[DeanT77]

That's the first I have heard that standard 8p s3s were close to 300 from the factory.
Mine was certainly closer to 265 on 2 different rolling roads.

I did manage to hit about 290 with a standard map but only after fitting CAI, exhaust, cat, IC, rs4 valve, also had water meth kit fitted.

Stage 1 with a CAI got me about 310bhp or so.

 

[sigma]

Is this thread typical of Golf owners? More fussed about power than handling, given that nobody answered my q about handling

 

[Walkerie]

Im going to look into the s3s also. Can anyone tell me which years the 8p had cosmetic changes or body kits or anything like that?

 

[LiE]

If I had a grand to spare I would. Will keep saving the pennies

Im going to look into the s3s also. Can anyone tell me which years the 8p had cosmetic changes or body kits or anything like that?

I don't understand. You don't have funds to remap your current car but can afford to drop £12k+ on a new car...

 

[Armageus]

Im going to look into the s3s also. Can anyone tell me which years the 8p had cosmetic changes or body kits or anything like that?

'08 was when the A3/S3 had a very minor facelift with slightly different grill, different rear lights, and different headlights with DRL's. The S3 Sportback (5 door) was introduced at the same time. 7 Speed DSG also introducted

'09 onward the LCD display (within the dash clocks) was changed to a full colour one with white writing (rather than being red backlit on older models).