Mercedes AMG A35 or current A45

Soldato
Joined
5 Sep 2011
Posts
12,812
Location
Surrey
What? I think you may have misunderstood my point... I was not comparing older gen N/A cars to older gen turbo cars, I was comparing older gen cars to new generation cars. Older generations tended to have bigger NA engines instead of modern day cars aimed at similar people which are now whizzy 4 pot turbos. On the whole, the driving pleasure that these engines, that are now two or three generations old, gave is far more so than the stuff that's generally been put out in the last 4-5 years. The stuff that has been put out in the last 4-5 years, such as in the hot hatch sector, is often 4WD, low displacement, lower revving, low lag twin scroll turbo'd engines. Hugely capable, quick and capable of worrying things double their price, but the driving experience cannot be described as exciting. It has been a common criticism of this type of hot hatch, going back to something like the 8P Audi S3 (which that was arguably the earliest recognisable incarnation of the 2019 hot hatches). I remember people who owned them saying how great it was at everything, then their face would drop a bit and say "but it's a bit dull".



Not at all. Don't think I'm some luddite who only likes NA cars, strictly with a manual gearbox and if it doesn't do 10mpg, I'm not interested - because it couldn't be further from the truth. I like cars that are exciting, that sound good and give you a buzz. I think that, in particular, the last couple of generation of hot hatches absolutely don't do that. Partly because they are turbo'd and are so smooth so you never get that huge kick from a turbo kicking in. Partly because they are 4WD so you get none of that edginess from RWD or that razor sharp turn in from light FWD cars. Partly because they do sound pretty crap. Partly because they are *all* the same and there's very little to differentiate them.

And as a side note, something like an Evo was exciting because they were pretty mad at the time, putting out 400bhp 15 years ago, they were laggy and weren't super smooth, they were uncomfortable and noisy, they needed a service every 3 miles and needed new tyres after 2 miles. They were edgy, and although they never really appealed to me - I could definitely see Jap car enthusiasts would go mad for them.

But of course, they didn't sell many of them which is why Mitsubishi have said that they are now only looking to release hybrid SUV's - because they are trying to cater for the masses, which I get.

The days of exciting cars, many of them with "flaws", are numbered. We're currently in the era of hybrid 2 litre 4 pot 4WD turbos that are £30k and will fly around the Nurburgring like a scalded cat requiring little driver skill or involvement are definitely upon us.

I think where we're at odds is you seem to begrudge 4 pot engines altogether, so it's hard to address what you're saying honestly whilst you're adding the snipe comments instead of simply saying it outright lol. Moreover, Evos were 4WD (or AWD) and were exciting for many reasons, or else they wouldn't be iconic now. There's still a huge demand for good ones and enthusiasts often go back to them even now (however then forgetting how much they miss modern perks, rinse and repeat). Of course, there's plenty of other cars for thrill seekers throughout the last 20 years.

Where and how the wheels are driven along with engine size is but a small part in why newer cars are more disconnected. They're better built, better designed, electronically assisted and much heavier as a further byproduct. So it's not synonymous with them being a "wizzy 4 pot". Sound will always be subjective - do you think Doris from number 8 cares if you have 10 cylinders whilst waking her up at 7:30? No, but feel free to try and persuade her otherwise. If she had any common sense, she'd tell you to move on with everyone else and face the music. :D
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Nov 2004
Posts
15,686
Location
East of England
I think where we're at odds is you seem to begrudge 4 pot engines altogether, so it's hard to address what you're saying honestly whilst you're adding the snipe comments instead of simply saying it outright lol.

Huh? Snipe comments? Everything I've said was as neutral and accurate as I could make it in a short post. Some might say the post was as boring as a 4 pot 2 litre turbo engine (now that's a snipe ;) :p)

I've said above that there are some very exciting 4 pot engines out there, but none that I can think of that have been made in the last 10 years or so. Engines like the K20A were great, and pretty much most fast Honda engines, until about 2010. But FWIW, the vast majority of 4 cyl engines for me are the least interesting sounding - they are quite flat, plain, no burble and not exactly pleasing to the ear. If you then stick a turbo, which are well known to flatten out engine sounds, on a 4cyl you turn a fairly flat sounding engine into a very flat sounding engine. I'm sure someone who knows about sound could put it more succinctly about frequencies and....stuff.

Moreover, Evos were 4WD (or AWD) and were exciting for many reasons, or else they wouldn't be iconic now.

Yeah, I know. This is exactly what I said in my previous post??

There's still a huge demand for good ones and enthusiasts often go back to them even now (however then forgetting how much they miss modern perks, rinse and repeat).

"Huge demand" is relative. Huge demand from the 0.0001% of people who hold a driving licence perhaps. The other 99.9999% don't care.

Of course, there's plenty of other cars for thrill seekers throughout the last 20 years.

Agreed, but there isn't many at all in the last 5 years.

Where and how the wheels are driven along with engine size is but a small part in why newer cars are more disconnected. They're better built, better designed, electronically assisted and much heavier as a further byproduct. So it's not synonymous with them being a "wizzy 4 pot".

No, but we're not really talking about "new cars" as a whole. New cars for someone who doesn't care about cars has probably never been better. So much safety, autonomy, ergonomics - a truly great thing for the figurative Doris at Number 8. But we're not really talking about them, we're taking about performance cars. Performance cars, used to be synonymous with exciting cars. Now they are becoming more and more mutually exclusive, which is where my reference for "whizzy 4 pots" come in. The point I'm pushing is a similar one to 10 years ago when performance diesels came out. 335d owners used to love going on about how many MPG they got but could still do 0-60 in 5.9seconds and 170mph etc - which was all true. But there was absolutely nothing interesting about them. And some of them used to claim that their "performance diesel" made a good noise and that "sound will always be subjective"...

Sound will always be subjective

Now who's being "wilfully ignorant? ;)

Do you think Doris from number 8 cares if you have 10 cylinders whilst waking her up at 7:30? No, but feel free to try and persuade her otherwise. If she had any common sense, she'd tell you to move on with everyone else and face the music. :D

Quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss how many cylinders Doris from Number 8 thought I had. :p I'd buy an exciting car for me, not for anyone else?

I, on the other hand, would care how many cylinders Doris had in her car when she woke me up at 0730. And I can tell you I'd rather be woken up by the wail-turned-shriek of a V10 than the low, flat, monotonous pop pop pop pop fart of a modern 4cyl turbo. :p
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
22 Nov 2006
Posts
23,299
Quite, boring things bother me :(

I'm waiting for 3 cylinders to kill off 4 cylinders. Lighter than a 4 cylinder, sounds like a baby 6 cylinder and will be super efficient.

But not as tunable because the cooling limitations with 3 cylinders is more restrictive.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Jun 2004
Posts
5,902
Location
Essex
Having been passed by a number of 6.2L AMG variants at full chat I can really appreciate the theatre of it.

Theatre because it’s just obnoxiously noisy?

Surely one should favour a more capable car for enjoying down technical b-roads to a more skittish, obnoxiously loud car that’s only good for drawing attention to yourself in a straight line?
 
Mobster
Soldato
Joined
4 Apr 2011
Posts
3,501
Got my A35 only a few weeks ago now. Done 900 miles on it so been opening it up a bit and there is a beast under the bonnet, its like a rocket.
 

LiE

LiE

Caporegime
Joined
2 Aug 2005
Posts
25,601
Location
Milton Keynes
Got my A35 only a few weeks ago now. Done 900 miles on it so been opening it up a bit and there is a beast under the bonnet, its like a rocket.

I looked at it the other day and it's only 300bhp, I thought it was more but I guess it's going up against the S3/Gold R and not the RS3s of the world.
 
Caporegime
Joined
22 Oct 2002
Posts
26,808
Location
Boston, Lincolnshire
Engines do not really bother me. Would much rather have better weight distribution and a more dynamic chassis than having extra cylinders. 4 pots are more than enough for British roads now and exhausts are so terrible compared to the old days that they do not sound that great anyway unless it is a V8 or bigger.
 
Associate
Joined
21 Oct 2009
Posts
263
I do find and this is not scientific, that 135i/140i and A45's often tend to be the most agressively driven cars by people (read yoof) who need to show their manhood more than any other car. On several occasions I look in my mirror to see one rushing to catch up or when alongside they seem to pick up the pace instantly. Don't be that guy please, it's tiresome. :)

Bit of a random bump but as a driver of an M135i literally the only people that seem to pull **** like that 'against' me are pillocks in diesel Audi's. Its amazing really, its nearly always a debadged, black circa 10 year old A3 tdi wanting to race. Sod off!

Had to get out of the way on a steepish crawler lane recently for a 19 plate RS3, absolutely rapid thing in a straight line. He looked so smug as he went by, major difference is im paying £340 a month and he's probably paying double. Sod that sort of money for a spreadsheet warrior 5 door hot hatch.
 
Associate
Joined
6 Oct 2004
Posts
1,980
Location
Southampton, UK
Going to be looking at / test driving an A35 shortly. As I have found out that I can get a reasonable discount on factory built ones. Considering a fully loaded one , but what ones that I can cross of the options list , except for the aero pack and the adjustable dampers ?
 
Back
Top Bottom