The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

Soldato
Joined
25 Feb 2004
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Hampshire
Sweet setup and perfectly adequite for garage zwifting! I'm actually quite jealous of the amount of space you have! I quite regularly have to shuffle things around to make a bit more room for me. Maybe I'm just fat.

Conveniently placed box of baby wipes for 'those' kind of rides?

Where do you put the laptop...? Interested how you find your home made trainer mat. I ended up buying the cheapest I could find on px. Some noname brand as I'm a cheapskate lol!

Weird. Check your sync settings between apps. You'll maybe find Zwift isn't authorised by Strava so check pairing etc there. One thing with Zwift bug/problems their site is well read, responded and documented, google search is your friend.

You can also find your previously activities as .fit files in your my docs/zwift folder to manually upload.

Thanks, it's a work in progress, going to get some sort of tablet/free stand from Amazon to hold up the Surface Pro, and then an accompanying little table for my phone. Baby Wipes are on top of the box of cleaning brushes, towels etc.

The Mat is just something I had come with some furniture I think a few years back and I've just kept it for odd stuff, it has loads of paint on the other side, but gives a little flex which sort of helps with movement of the turbo so it's not so rigid.

No idea what happened on that first ride, but it's syncing up now, did 90 minutes on Tuesday and was fine, although ERG mode killed me on my intervals, soon learnt to turn that off! Only had the laptop on as a side display and watched something else on the big screen. Need to try one of the races to see what they're like. Any good recommendations on ones to get in? OR what I should be looking at. My trial runs out on tuesday, will see if I take it up for now or just wait as it's another expense that I won't be using loads if the weather isn't too awful.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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8,437
Location
Hereford
Baby wipes was a joke! ;) Since Jr came along we've had so many of them. I know they're not 'environmentally friendly' but screw that - I've never really used them before so still amazed by their cleaning properties lol! :D

DCR did something good with a stand for ipads before he got the Wahoo table. Think he used a music stand, or even a mic stand? Remember comments about all the different accessories you could get for mic stands.

Wiggle/DHB/Lifeline do a table very similar to Wahoo's but no idea what it's actually like. Would be worth a look! For Trainer mat, I like how dense mine is compared to something fairly light like yours. It doesn't move, but mine tends to collect dirt as the surface is a textured rubber and doesn't clean that easily. Yours probably wipes clean. I had considered using a couple of the OcUK XXL Mouse/desk mats but they would've worked out more than the £20 or so I spend on my 'Sportscraft' or whatever brand mat I got. The other thought which I think @randomshenans used was gym mats, think he did the entire garage with the interlocking ones. Get some of the dense foam ones and they should be hard wearing. I did play with the idea of a camping mat, or something for the base of a tent but think I found they where too thin/dense to really do much and would get damaged too easily.

Jump into any race which suits your riding time, zwiftpower.com should give you an idea of what routes and some have approx ride times. EVR & KISS used to be the most popular/competitive, but don't see many rides listed by them any longer. Popular timeslots tended to be 8-9pm. At least in EU anyway. The Zwift Tri group workouts are good at the moment, lots of Movember stuff but no idea how busy they are. SZR/ZHR/3R/BRT are all popular events/organisers so should be well attended series of races. I liked the BRT Crit race I did a few weeks back, not too busy but some good riders to race against so quite tactical.
 
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Soldato
Joined
27 Feb 2003
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7,173
Location
Shropshire
Warning! Dumb questions about smart trainers coming up...

I've spent a bit of my lunch reading smart trainer basics and reviews, mainly from DCR and GPLama.

At the moment I only sub' to Sufferfest. I think I understand this bit now - when in ERG mode, if the SF app calls for a power of 250w, then a smart trainer will hold 250w watts no matter if you're doing 60 or 90rpm. If you're not having a good day and can't hold the power, you're stuck in a downward spiral?

IIRC, both DCR and GPL commented the new Saris H3 is excellent for hitting the target power for intervals, so a great choice of TrainerRoad (and thus I presume SF). Though I think I picked up that very short intervals (5 to 10s) aren't good in ERG mode as the trainer can't respond up/down quick enough - right?

If you're just riding along in Zwift, what mode do you put the trainer into? I presume you use gears like on the road?

Some of the reviews for Elite Suito note it doesn't have a power meter built-in. So what's the weakness of this?

More stupidity to come soon!
 
Soldato
Joined
10 Sep 2009
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2,849
Location
Gloucestershire
Not really had a go yet, but a little stand for stuff is on the cards. Bit worried that the Neo makes a slight metallic whirring noise as it moves like something is rubbing.

Probably this but easily sorted by loosening the flywheel and re-seating it. Complete removal probably not necessary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1YeJVST8c8

And I've also got a Neo and that same fan :)

I have a 2 shelf stainless steel wheeled catering trolley for the PC and other bits. 22" 1920x1080 monitor wall mounted on a VESA bracket.
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Nov 2005
Posts
8,654
Location
Southampton
Warning! Dumb questions about smart trainers coming up...

I've spent a bit of my lunch reading smart trainer basics and reviews, mainly from DCR and GPLama.

At the moment I only sub' to Sufferfest. I think I understand this bit now - when in ERG mode, if the SF app calls for a power of 250w, then a smart trainer will hold 250w watts no matter if you're doing 60 or 90rpm. If you're not having a good day and can't hold the power, you're stuck in a downward spiral?

IIRC, both DCR and GPL commented the new Saris H3 is excellent for hitting the target power for intervals, so a great choice of TrainerRoad (and thus I presume SF). Though I think I picked up that very short intervals (5 to 10s) aren't good in ERG mode as the trainer can't respond up/down quick enough - right?

If you're just riding along in Zwift, what mode do you put the trainer into? I presume you use gears like on the road?

Some of the reviews for Elite Suito note it doesn't have a power meter built-in. So what's the weakness of this?

More stupidity to come soon!

For any given gear combo, most turbos have a power range they can try to match when in ERG mode mode, depending upon the cadence. So for example, 34/18 gives an 84-484W range when cadence is in the 70-90rpm ballpark on the Direto IIRC.

Very possible to end up in a downward spiral if your legs aren't interested and your cadence drops, horrid when it happens!

Sometimes like last night I'll use manual gearing to affect power, along with slope emulation. 80% slope emulation works well for the Direto in Zwift, in as much as it can emulate up to 14% gradient and the max slope in Zwift outside the UCI Horrowgate course is ~18%, which means you will feel pretty much all slope changes... But for most climbs, setting slope emulation to 100% means your gearing and power output will match outdoors more closely, without factors like nasty headwinds etc.
But equally, picking a route and applying either a preset or custom training session is useful, especially if working on specific power interval targets. It's simple to adjust your FTP in Zwift, so you can easily change how hard or easy you want the session to be before you start and you can always adjust by +/-10% during the session... So even on a flat course like Tempus Fugit, you can make ERG mode mix up how much you want to punish your legs, rather than perhaps staying in say 50/18 with similar power for the whole course.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,437
Location
Hereford
Warning! Dumb questions about smart trainers coming up...
Never a dumb question!

I think I understand this bit now - when in ERG mode, if the SF app calls for a power of 250w, then a smart trainer will hold 250w watts no matter if you're doing 60 or 90rpm. If you're not having a good day and can't hold the power, you're stuck in a downward spiral?
Pretty much, although bear in mind the power curve of the trainer comes into things a huge amount in intervals, less so in more gradual gradient changes like climbs. Many/most trainers 'struggle' with short intervals on ERG - the power curve being too slow for large leaps in resistance, while still not feeling like a 'wall' of impossible resitance hitting your legs. In theory the power curve is there to 'hit' you just as your legs are pushing that wattage, but in reality you'll always be trying to 'catch' the resistance and power figure due to the curve, trying to stay on top of the gear. Ideally you need to be kicking just as it starts to ramp, rather than reacting to the ramp, much like you do on the road if you know the climb/kicker. You also need to be somehow sustaining the cadence and not changing gear as both of those will make it harder and longer for the trainer to 'hit' the required target, or more accurately to have supplied enough resitance for you to have hit the power target at a constant cadence.

IIRC, both DCR and GPL commented the new Saris H3 is excellent for hitting the target power for intervals, so a great choice of TrainerRoad (and thus I presume SF). Though I think I picked up that very short intervals (5 to 10s) aren't good in ERG mode as the trainer can't respond up/down quick enough - right?
See above on my take of why. I've heard that about the H2 and H3 from DCR but no experience. I think it probably just has a quicker/steeper power curve, or is able to hit it's measured power quicker/easier by a more progressive but stable power curve/ramp so you can hit interval targets with it quicker and more consistently.

If you're just riding along in Zwift, what mode do you put the trainer into? I presume you use gears like on the road?
By just 'riding along' you'll want it in ERG - you want it to be responding to the terrain you're riding. If that's what you're trying to do (which is one of the beauties of trainers, they can do lots of different things regarding what you're trying to do...)

Some of the reviews for Elite Suito note it doesn't have a power meter built-in. So what's the weakness of this?
Less accurate power measurement - it's taken from the 'speed' of belts/resistance units/flywheels and calculated into a power output, rather than a strain gauge like a power meter. They may be less accurate (as they're more of a reaction to your power) than a direct measurement of the actual power (which from a trainer with a power meter must be at the resistance unit).

Disclaimer: above is my understanding of it all, some of it possibly inaccurate.

Sometimes like last night I'll use manual gearing to affect power, along with slope emulation. 80% slope emulation works well for the Direto in Zwift, in as much as it can emulate up to 14% gradient and the max slope in Zwift outside the UCI Horrowgate course is ~18%, which means you will feel pretty much all slope changes... But for most climbs, setting slope emulation to 100% means your gearing and power output will match outdoors more closely, without factors like nasty headwinds etc.
Great point. I used to ride at the default, which I think then was 50% emulation. I found back then I could easily overpower the on-wheel trainer, there wasn't many big gradients on Zwift then, so even the steepest (maybe 12%?) only 'felt' like 6%. Didn't even need to stand, just ramp up seated power. When racing though, I found myself easily dropped by other riders on ramps, when I knew I had the power, I just couldn't lay it down. I upped my slider to 100% and it was spot on, really tough but I was still able to overpower it slow power/resistance curve of the on-wheel trainer. Switching to Direct Drive I've actually dropped it down to about 75-80%. It's meaty enough that I get the feel of everything, I can't overpower the trainer like before, but equally I tried to ride AdZ with it and I think the KOM climb at 100% and it was too much, 14% felt like 20%+ outside. A standing low cadence grind. It's about right now to how I ride outside and how climbs/ramps feel to me outside and more accurately to the power output and cadence I see from outside rides at similar cadence/efforts. Horses for courses really, if I wanted to do more power training and using free riding hills/AdZ repeats for it I'd probably put it back up to 100%.
 
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Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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Hereford
Yup, best way to experience is to get on it and RIDE! :D

Although saying that at least 2 of my LBS now have Turbo trainer setups in store for people to try, could be worth going along if you have a friendly local LBS willing for you to try different trainers? One of mine had a Wahoo night with all the Wahoo trainers setup for people to try, also pizza and beer. Gutted I missed it!

https://www.strava.com/activities/2865248149/
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=249298
I jumped on last night, as I'd used the bike outside on tuesday and had to set things all up again it really ate into my riding time so had to settle on a short race. Considering the lack of miles this week it was a good choice, told myself to ride it steady so entered C on an Innsbruck flat route, 2 lapper. Quite a mixture of CAT groups all setting off together so after the usual mad/strong start eased from the scattered front to a large C chase group. Saw the profile was pointing at the big climb and got a little disheartened as was sure I'd chosen the flat race lol. It wasn't (thanfully) just had the one ramp in it. Came across someone I've chatted with before in the group and had some fun to help her friend back into the group as he got dropped. Put some tactics together but mostly decided to ride the first climb hard to try and split things up as the group was massive. Sure enough the climb was decisive, pushing on I caught and passed 3-4 B riders but the stretched out group behind nobody came with me. I'd built a gap of 18s fairly easily so knew I had good legs to hopefully do the same next lap, or a long break into the finish. After a bit of solo riding and a brief 3up with some of the B's I'd passed I eased back into the group. It was a little smaller, but not what I'd hoped. Into the second lap the speed slowly ramped up, several gaps opened and distracted I found myself chasing a couple of times. Lost my friends at one point and chasing wheels realised it was only me and a handfull of B's. I don't remember the second climb, being so focussed on chasing and holding wheels. Looks like I paced it well, that's a sterling effort for me at that stage of a race after closing some gaps. I held off in the finish, knowing I didn't have much legs for a long finish or breakaway. Even less than 1000ft to finish nobody was going, I kicked without much there just after 2 others had begun to stretch things out. I saw some good numbers, even an orange/red 10w/kg but couldn't catch the 2 others who'd kicked a second or two earlier. Beat the others and the only other C there with me. 4th on screen, 1st C on ZP. Really happy with that one, crazy high HR for me but some decent power and feeling in my legs considering the low/zero mileage for 10 days.
 
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Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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Hereford
https://www.strava.com/activities/2870820485

Made the start for the 100km 3R ride on sunday. Just (late join lol). Was a cold start in my garage so started quite layered up and gradually stripped things off. Seemed to work well for this kind of ride, although 1 early chase really did make me cook! Couple of fairly early long chase efforts for dropped riders and a group which kept stringing out. Several of us keeping/sweeping regulars knew this one was going to be painful towards the end if it continued! Thankfully leader started using the Fence, although a couple of times it seemed really aggressive and would enable at 10s (really harsh!) so we lost some legitimate riders. Middle part of the ride was loads easier and group somehow because really well behaved and the rear kept in. Good course for a group ride like this as no huge climbs or combinations of ramps to really split things, providing the group listened to lead it would string out, then naturally regroup without much effort. Did some long tows at the end, as even with some interrupted sleep for several days (little man) and low mileage, I had good legs. Really good ride for me to help a bit of a slump I'm in - interrupted sleep & low mileage. Need to ride some this week to get the curve going the right way (again). :cool:
 
Soldato
Joined
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20,701
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England
^ Good work Roady.

Don't suppose anyone has a Trainerroad code/voucher/referral at all? I'm interested in migrating over, for workouts/training plans at least, will probably keep Zwift for socials/racing.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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20,701
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England
Received - thanks, will try it out probably Wednesday/Thursday.

How do you find it? I'm kinda wanting to make my winter training more structured, it seems to be the right tool for that.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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3,123
Location
Fife, Scotland
For structured training its really good and sticking with it will show improvements from what I've seen. The ramp test every 4-6 weeks is decent you don't dread it as much as a 20 minute effort anyway hah

Don't let the static screen put you off, just play music or use minimal mode and watch the Trainerroad YouTube channel heh.

Enjoy!
 
Soldato
Joined
27 Feb 2003
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7,173
Location
Shropshire
Anyone ever popped a inner tube on the turbo? Scared the bejesus out of me tonight.

Grabbed a new tube, check inside the tyre with my finger, found nothing so fitted it and started to blow it up. That suddenly went pop as well. Checked the outside of the tyre - oh, that gash in the tread might be the issue... :rolleyes:

Blew the dust off an ancient (nasty) Schwalbe Lugano and another new tube. Thankfully that combo survived the session!

Still, another reason to buy a direct drive trainer!
 
Soldato
Joined
22 May 2003
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10,855
Location
Wigan
I thought I was totally sucking.

Turns out Zwift altered the resistance earlier this month/last month of the different surfaces and now the gravel is slower to ride.

Took me 8 1/2 minutes to climb out of the jungle and it used to take 6! I feel a bit better now, as I rode the jungle loop (30km) and it took me a full hour, I used to do 35-36km in the same time!
 
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