Road Cycling

[Lethal`]

@Drollic - Your last comment isn't always true. For the vast majority it is when you compare general riding outdoor versus indoor. The racing I am doing on Zwift is some of the hardest stuff I have done on a bike and it is more taxing on my body overall by far than most outdoor stuff I have ever done. All the reasons you listed to make outdoor riding appear harder are reasons why you can actually make it harder on yourself indoors!

I agree with this. While I've not used my turbo that much (only had it few months) every session I've done has ended up harder than equivalent time spent outdoors. I guess because there's rarely any coasting etc. Also motivationally it's a lot tougher.

I am disappointed that Strava implemented these changes immediately. That's pretty poor form to all the app developers that have had their apps break as a result of this. Their users may rightly be annoyed with them but they had no notice to make changes. What harm would at least 30 days notice have done?

 

[Jonny ///M]

I'd agree stop Zwift counting as mileage is it isn't the same.

I'd say power for power Zwift is harder as you don't get as much recovery, don't know how that changes with a direct drive turbo at all?

Doesn't your mate Gavin do better on Zwift than Archibald but on the road they switch?

 

[xdcx]

It seems the problem is that you are identifying something as being harder based on distance/elevation. You can't compare the two on that and I am comparing them on perceived effort, TSS scoring or whatever metric you use for quantifying load/stress on the body. Comparing 100KM outdoors to indoors as actual distance covered is silly. My question above was genuine and I cannot understand people actually thinking they have "done 100KM" if they done it on Zwift..... they done a time on their trainer, they didn't do the distance as they literally didn't move

I wouldn't say it's easier on the mind and body that lets you push harder. I actually find outside is easier on the mind and body because you have things to look at, fresh air, the tailwind to look forward to, downhills to enjoy etc etc etc. On the trainer you are on the pedals the entire time with no real world feedback to both satisfy the mind so much or the body through shifting on saddle, in/out saddle depending on terrain etc.

I can score more TSS and require more recovery after a 70min race on Zwift than I could on a high z2 3hour ride with 1000m elevation. Which is "harder"?

 

[xdcx]

Doesn't your mate Gavin do better on Zwift than Archibald but on the road they switch?

Gavin's been racing on Zwift for 5 years. He can beat most people with .5 less w/kg average as he knows and the mechanics of the drafting in game so well and can conserve so much. That's why so many pro's are on it getting beaten by community racers it is nothing to do with the community guys being stronger or anything like that. They just understand the game as they race on it 5 times a week and the pro's have raced on it little or not at all.

Archibald would smash anyone out on the road

This again all ties into (as you are hinting) that the two are not directly comparable at all. They are different things.
And that again ties into how laughable it is when people claim they have done "this many miles this week" when they haven't turned a pedal outside. We are all agreeing that KM's traveled and metres climbed should be segregated statistics on Strava.
The same way it shows a ride as being virtual it should show a "virtual statistics" and "outdoors statistics" or something like that.

 

[Fusion]

Loving the riding at the minute and have lost 4.6kg since Jan. Not particularly aiming for further weight loss, but won't complain if it continues!

 

[Drollic]

It seems the problem is that you are identifying something as being harder based on distance/elevation. You can't compare the two on that and I am comparing them on perceived effort, TSS scoring or whatever metric you use for quantifying load/stress on the body. Comparing 100KM outdoors to indoors as actual distance covered is silly. My question above was genuine and I cannot understand people actually thinking they have "done 100KM" if they done it on Zwift..... they done a time on their trainer, they didn't do the distance as they literally didn't move

I wouldn't say it's easier on the mind and body that lets you push harder. I actually find outside is easier on the mind and body because you have things to look at, fresh air, the tailwind to look forward to, downhills to enjoy etc etc etc. On the trainer you are on the pedals the entire time with no real world feedback to both satisfy the mind so much or the body through shifting on saddle, in/out saddle depending on terrain etc.

I can score more TSS and require more recovery after a 70min race on Zwift than I could on a high z2 3hour ride with 1000m elevation. Which is "harder"?

It's really not that complicated. People can do things on zwift they can't replicate on road as road is harder. It's that simple. You're not comparing racing on zwift to racing on road as you can't do what you're doing on zwift on road as it's harder for the reasons previously listed. It sounds like you're comparing apples to oranges which is correct, accept strava sees both as apples. I'm not saying zwift isn't tough or it's easy, some of the stuff is nuts, but it's not the same as doing it on road like for like, therefore it should have a separate log. There's loads of reasons I haven't even mentioned, like the fact that for bigger distance there's no possibility of riding in darkness for hours, on big elevation rides there's no altitude difference. The list like I say goes on and on.

The saddle argument is completely redundant unless you cycle on very smooth roads and run 28s. 25s on average UK roads for hours is far worse on both your backside and wrists due to vibration and as I said before, the fact that sitting upright gives you a penalty. A saddle to bar drop of 0 indoors, no matter, less pressure through wrists, less core strength required etc.

Just to add, like for like, if it was easier on the body and mind outdoors, which it isn't, ultra distance results would therefore be higher on road. They aren't, for my reasons listed.

 

[Roady]

Absolutely wrecked myself emptying myself on Gospel pass south yesterday. Headwinds on the fairly exposed main road ride out to it really didn't help, so couldn't ride the climb as hard as I wanted. Equally so long since I rode the climb I had to tempo much of it and keep some in the tank. Actually looking on Strava times I never made it up there the previous times lol. Not surprised, top exposed section was a block headwind. 32*34 grind and willpower got me up there, not training, not power, not fitness!

Dead quiet up there (it's in Wales so still 'closed' to tourists) with all car parks closed. Saw 7 or 8 cars in maybe an hour and a half of riding, vast majority locals. Sunny weather you'd normally see 10 times that and all tourists...

You gave your thoughts, which kind of validated mine, I even thanked you. I'm not sure what the issue is?

Stop looking for an issue, it's an online forum! Not having a dig as I like you and your posts in here just trying to say - chill out a bit and enjoy different opinions and such on here. Sarcasm never comes across well online and we're a wide and diverse quite unique cross section of cyclists in here, mainly due to what these forums where originally for!

I've never rated SiS stuff due to the price and the gels never agreed with me. But I got some of the Go Hydration powder and have been riding well off it so I think I'm a convert. Previously only used basic hydration stuff (High5/Wiggle/Powerbar) and not really energy drink (generally using natural foods/bars for that). Have found that riding the turbo with it, it really makes me sweat a bunch more than the other stuff. Weird. Probably does the same outside but less noticeable!?

Some cycling thoughts from the weekend:
1) Does removing all your hair from your legs really make a 10w improvement as several results on Google suggest? I tried a discrete patch and the itchyness is horrific.
2) Cars are more insufferable when out on the bike this weekend then they have ever been

Haha total clickbait! Shaved legs for the masses are generally to make massages more comfortable. Also as smooth legs generally look better but I'd rather look at my missus legs than my mates... The more serious TT guys there might be some aero gains/watt saving but would be good to see some numbers where/what the trade off actually is.

Had noticed an increase in traffic but not really much increased rage. Same amount I would expect normally, but then I guess I am lucky and have generally always avoided the busiwe traffic hotspots and it's so ingrained in me I still am to some degree!

I have a helmet question... I feel mine looks bigger and more bulbous than others. What is a good, low profile, but still well protected helmet?

What are you riding with now and what are you judging it against...?

My previous Kask Infinity always felt a bit bulky but recently switched to a Specialized/s-works Evade and it really doesn't. It's a similar size but quite a bit lighter and fits me quite a bit better. So the feeling might be more helmet weight and fit!?

Surprised no one has mentioned this?

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/8194/strava-removes-segment-features-for-free-users

I've been summit for a while now and never got around to dropping it. Have meant to make the switch to Training Peaks and never have. The additional summit stuff like the power zones/efforts stuff on rides and the Fitness & Freshness I use quite a bit so for me summit is worth it. So all they've really done is give me more functionality in summit I use that I'll lose if/when I drop it.

Who on earth do you know that is saying they have "done this much KM's/miles this week" based off their zwifting/indoor riding? Are there people out there who do that?

I do. But I think because without those miles I would have very little... For me the turbo miles are generally harder riding than much of the road stuff I do - which is generally social (non-drop) rides.

As you say, because you can't replicate outdoor riding indoors, why should it count as the same mileage and elevation log. For something claiming to be so athlete driven, it's almost an insult to those putting in a lot of road mileage, in particular in winter.

See I don't quite get the huge outrage about it from you on here about it (tongue in cheek I hope you're not that stressed about it, just having a vent!), although I do utterly agree with everything you're saying.

It's just Strava being Strava. A feature which has been requested from before Zwift even became a thing and they've never implemented. They're a joke of a company, always been after more and more money for what is an over subscribed and lauded social network/system aimed at athletes. Look how many years it took them to add quality mapping and even ANT/BT into their app. Years. They lost out on millions there. Strava losing people to all the other similar systems is all their own fault. They've always been their own worst enemy in my opinion, but equally the base/original system was so well done/developed it has carried them to the position they're at now. Would be good to know if the original development team who did that framework/structure are still there. I would think not!

 

[Drollic]

@Roady

I'm not outraged by it, but do see it as something that should be addressed. It dampens peoples efforts and achievements on road in my view by not being separate. Can you imagine the outrage if zwift counted towards road koms, I haven't even mentioned steering and braking... They want to take things seriously clearly and now they're encouraging more people to pay for their service. This doesn't seem like a complicated or costly fix for such a company.

 

[Roady]

So a week of no riding for me, but bit of time off can’t hurt, don’t want to put myself in a hole. Might do an easy 90 mins tomorrow if I’m feeling better still.

Good to hear it wasn't CV and good to hear you're about over it. There has been some strange things going around, have seen and experienced a few minor ones here and just put it down to unseasonal type weather and usual little people germs.

@Roady

I'm not outraged by it, but do see it as something that should be addressed. It dampens peoples efforts and achievements on road in my view by not being separate. Can you imagine the outrage if zwift counted towards road koms, I haven't even mentioned steering and braking... They want to take things seriously clearly and now they're encouraging more people to pay for their service. This doesn't seem like a complicated or costly fix for such a company.

Outrageed was possibly the wrong word but you got my meaning. It's good to vent. Previously rides from other training platforms DID count towards 'real' segments. Thankfully they sorted that. Think even when Zwift had London (or was it Richmond) in beta it did it too.

It's not complicated. We've discussed it here before, I'm of the opinion they have much of the functionality of it there already amd have done for many years - the ride 'type' is different. There's a filter there already in place on the 'Training Log' to exclude rides marked as 'Commute', which is just a flag on a ride. Surely incorporate the two wouldn't be hard. Make commutes a ride type. Make the Training log, rider feed and maybe even activity feed filterable by those types. Or even a way to choose what activities you want to see by some kinda priority. I've got runner friends and I do want to see some of their stuff, equally I just gloss over those 'general' type activities that others feel the need of putting up, like 45 minutes on a rower, 50 minutes pilates, 15 minutes mowing the grass, 5 minutes with my finger up my bum. I couldn't care less about those.

 

[Roady]

Absolutely wrecked myself emptying myself on Gospel pass south yesterday. Headwinds on the fairly exposed main road ride out to it really didn't help, so couldn't ride the climb as hard as I wanted. Equally so long since I rode the climb I had to tempo much of it and keep some in the tank. Actually looking on Strava times I never made it up there the previous times lol. Not surprised, top exposed section was a block headwind. 32*34 grind and willpower got me up there, not training, not power, not fitness!

Dead quiet up there (it's in Wales so still 'closed' to tourists) with all car parks closed. Saw 7 or 8 cars in maybe an hour and a half of riding, vast majority locals. Sunny weather you'd normally see 10 times that and all tourists...

Filed spectacularly to link the activity as was on mobile then got diverted.

Gospel pass south yesterday. Ouchy bit (the top into block headwind). This is the 1597ft ascent segment I was kinda after. As Gospel is the highest paved road (outside of the lakes) in England and Wales, this is possibly the highest elevation segment? Not without hunting down something very long/brutal/not a road?

Few days before I went to what has become my local real climb to test things on, usually a nice 1 hour loop with a bit of everything. So I did it 3 times, admittedly from the 'easy' side 3 times and twice from the harder side but still. Rare picture of me on that one...

On the saturday I'd also attempted to do an FTP test and blew myself up twice in a row on the warmup, so given that up for now until I can get more Zwift time.

Oooosh, a friend is flying right now, screw going out with him anytime soon!

EDIT: totally unrelated one. Anyone using powerline converters? I have a set but it's just a pair. Now with the mrs' work PC home I've had to hand it over to her and back to running a long CAT5. Won't be long until it gets jammed in a door or the wee dude goes flying over it. So I'm after a new set, but need 3 of them that 'talk', maybe even 4. Ideally one of them has to have a mini switch on one end for my NAS box and my PC... My previous set had one but one of them blew, the replacements I got don't.

 

[Berger]

Managed a peak HR of 196 tonight. Not on Zwift!

That’s a very long false flat Roady, only getting good towards the end!

The Strava thing I’m not too bothered about, we all know how much wind, drafting, racing affects KOMs so I am happy just comparing to myself.

 

[AndyCr15]

What are you riding with now and what are you judging it against...?

My previous Kask Infinity always felt a bit bulky but recently switched to a Specialized/s-works Evade and it really doesn't. It's a similar size but quite a bit lighter and fits me quite a bit better. So the feeling might be more helmet weight and fit!?

It doesn't look as bad in that pic actually. It's this one. Looking at my order, it was a Large (59-63 cm) but I've just measured my head at 56cm, so I guess I just ordered one that was too big!

Funnily enough, the Specialised Evade was on my shortlist of two, along with the Oakley Aro5. If I can find either in medium (or I'm actually top end of small!?) and white at a reasonable price, I might pull the trigger.

 

[Liefrich]

It doesn't look as bad in that pic actually. It's this one. Looking at my order, it was a Large (59-63 cm) but I've just measured my head at 56cm, so I guess I just ordered one that was too big!

Funnily enough, the Specialised Evade was on my shortlist of two, along with the Oakley Aro5. If I can find either in medium (or I'm actually top end of small!?) and white at a reasonable price, I might pull the trigger.

The Foray is Giro's entry level helmet & MIPS also makes the helmet slightly bulkier. I really like Giro's helmets and have both the Foray and the Synthe (their more premium model), the latter is lighter and covers more of my brow. Ultimately the most important factor is for the helmet to fit, so maybe try a few brands to see what suits your head shape?

 

[Saytan]

i'd wait til the shops open and try them on til you find one you like.

 

[grudas]

long time no post in this thread..

think I need to get back on the bike! gyms closed etc I am starting to pack the wrong kind of mass and want to exercise again...

but me being me I cleared out and sold all 3 of my roadies last year obviously no-one can prepare for the mess we're in but I'm in the market for a roadie again, got most of my kit still around like my garmin 800, sensors, lights etc.

so just need a bike. Not too fussed on top spec etc so something midrange(tiagra/105) and up to 1k I'd say, I've narrowed it down to these 3 -;

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/felt-fr40-road-bike-2019/?g=0
https://www.merlincycles.com/merlin-roc-disc-105-road-bike-114799.html
https://www.merlincycles.com/sensa-lombardia-105-road-bike-2020-189685.html

to be fair the sensa seems to be the best spec for what I am looking for, FELT would probably be just fine too which is why it's in the list. Merlin has good kit but I feel that is more of an all-around commuter rather than weekend/sunny day roadie and while I loved my disk brakes I simply have no need for them compared to before when I commuted rain/sun/snow in london.

any feedback on the above? or anything else to look into for 1k ish.

I need a medium size frame so a lot of bikes are out of stock sadly.

 

[SoliD]

Back to reality last night with a couple of arguments, firstly after I gesticulated (not even a finger, just an arm flail) after a close pass. This was more a discussion with no foul language used by either party Second was on my way back home and approaching a narrow section on quite a gravelly road and just before I hit it I heard something coming from behind but carried on knowing it was only 200m or so until it opened up, he pulled up beside me and called me arrogant for not pulling over before the section, this got a little more heated, the time he spent arguing with me was at least twice as long as he was stuck behind me. Had a number of other close passes last night and definitely more traffic out, so appears we're getting back to normal. At least the weather is nice....

 

[xdcx]

It's really not that complicated. People can do things on zwift they can't replicate on road as road is harder. It's that simple. You're not comparing racing on zwift to racing on road as you can't do what you're doing on zwift on road as it's harder for the reasons previously listed. It sounds like you're comparing apples to oranges which is correct, accept strava sees both as apples. I'm not saying zwift isn't tough or it's easy, some of the stuff is nuts, but it's not the same as doing it on road like for like, therefore it should have a separate log. There's loads of reasons I haven't even mentioned, like the fact that for bigger distance there's no possibility of riding in darkness for hours, on big elevation rides there's no altitude difference. The list like I say goes on and on.

The saddle argument is completely redundant unless you cycle on very smooth roads and run 28s. 25s on average UK roads for hours is far worse on both your backside and wrists due to vibration and as I said before, the fact that sitting upright gives you a penalty. A saddle to bar drop of 0 indoors, no matter, less pressure through wrists, less core strength required etc.

Just to add, like for like, if it was easier on the body and mind outdoors, which it isn't, ultra distance results would therefore be higher on road. They aren't, for my reasons listed.

Our definitions of harder and what we do on bikes is clearly in very different places. So I openly give up.

 

[Berger]

Back to reality last night with a couple of arguments, firstly after I gesticulated (not even a finger, just an arm flail) after a close pass. This was more a discussion with no foul language used by either party Second was on my way back home and approaching a narrow section on quite a gravelly road and just before I hit it I heard something coming from behind but carried on knowing it was only 200m or so until it opened up, he pulled up beside me and called me arrogant for not pulling over before the section, this got a little more heated, the time he spent arguing with me was at least twice as long as he was stuck behind me. Had a number of other close passes last night and definitely more traffic out, so appears we're getting back to normal. At least the weather is nice....

I had a few passes early on, seemed to be people taking the back roads home from work. Two or three passes where they were on the wrong side of the road completely blind, one there did turn out to be oncoming traffic so it must have been super close. Both occasions the car had been behind me for less than 3 seconds and waiting 5 seconds would have given clear opportunity to pass...

 

[AndyCr15]

So I spent some (most) of my voucher...





An Orbea Gain F20. An interesting ride to work this morning!

I rode 3.9 miles, but my ELEMNT only logged 2.6 of them? It knows it's an eBike, does it only log unassisted miles or is it now likely just a GPS error?

 

[Lethal`]

It doesn't look as bad in that pic actually. It's this one. Looking at my order, it was a Large (59-63 cm) but I've just measured my head at 56cm, so I guess I just ordered one that was too big!

Funnily enough, the Specialised Evade was on my shortlist of two, along with the Oakley Aro5. If I can find either in medium (or I'm actually top end of small!?) and white at a reasonable price, I might pull the trigger.

I've got 3 Forays, one of them MIPS and one broken because I stepped on the buckle! I like them.

I've actually got an ARO5 sitting around too. I had to size up and do feel it looks pretty mushroom head but I've not actually used it out yet. I think I got it for £80ish on Wiggle.

Edit: still available for anyone with a tiny head. https://www.wiggle.co.uk/oakley-ar05-helmet-mips/