MOT emission failure MAF/oxygen-sensor/vacuum leak ?

[jpaul]

MOT had the following emissions fail versus last year
mechanic was suggesting it could be oxygen sensors , or failing cat - any opinions ?

Oxygen/lambda sensors are ~£100 each there are 2 on each bank (e: 2 downpipes each 3 cylinders) before cat (bmw M52 i6 ), used for controlling mixture, so I don't want to change them if not necessary.
anlso 2 after cat , apparently just used for EML lights (nothing shown)

I had cleaned the MAF recently and will be checking there is no vacuum leak, if there were a small leak could it be so dramatic ?

some web comments I'd read
- jiggerd 02/Lambda sensor usually shows up as high HC (hydro carbons/unburnt fuel) => so maybe not lambda, it doesn't use much oil either.

- exhaust leak would give a high lambda reading.=> no leaks afaik
- plugs and air filter then a damn good thrashing just before the retest. => haven't yet done/inspected plugs
- Bottle of Catalyst cleaner wouldn’t be wasted either, => I've put in some BP ultimate so far, car had been idle for 3 months, did maybe 10miles before mot to warm it, mpg doesn't seem to have deteriorated in post mot drives.
(posh nail varnish remover or equivilant that burns slightly hotter or burns with lower emissions)
- CO is carbon monoxide not CO2 and is the gas of incompete combustion so it must be running inefficiently, bad plugs, burnt valves etc

 

[Greebo]

CO is a sign the engine is running rich

Possible causes:

Air filter? You will be surprised just how cruddy some get and how much it restricts the air intake leading to rich fuel mixes

Faulty 02 sensor - the most likely cause. If it reads too much oxygen by mistake, the ECU will pump more fuel into the chambers leading to rich mixture, high CO

Defective MAP sensor - unlikely in this case i think.

Defective Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor - Low engine temperature requires more fuel. When the ECU is unable to determine what the engine's accurate temperature is, it will not adjust fuel delivery properly; resulting in high CO

More often than not it tends to be the O2 sensors.

 

[Armageus]

With a bluetooth OBD2 dongle and the Torque app you should be able to check operation of O2 Sensors..

Has it been stood for 3 months? Old petrol wouldn't necessarily be great. Might also be worth giving the battery a proper charge, as low voltage can sometimes cause all manner of random errors with sensors and the like.

 

[jsmoke]

What car is it, can you buy a obd2 scanner?

 

[jpaul]

Defective Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor - Low engine temperature requires more fuel. When the ECU is unable to determine what the engine's accurate temperature is, it will not adjust fuel delivery properly; resulting in high CO

More often than not it tends to be the O2 sensors.

haven't looked at bentley pdf yet, instrument panel temp has been ok, but maybe that's oil temp, and mixture uses a different sensor. (auxiliary fan has one I guess)
plugs look ok'ish - can't check the gap on this type - and I haven't yet got a new one to compare.

With a bluetooth OBD2 dongle and the Torque app you should be able to check operation of O2 Sensors..

yes didn't yet get a dongle after earlier thread - 4 sensors in total ...
and (thinking further) if the pre-cat/mixture ones were faulty, can the post cat (eml) ones be bad too ? and the engine should then tell me it has a problem.
After cleaning plugs, say, I suppose dongle would show if O2 levels change, but inability to measure emissions myself is a pain.

What car is it

bmw 3 05 - M52 i6

 

[jpaul]

plugs look ok'ish - can't check the gap on this type - and I haven't yet got a new one to compare.

Noticed that the central electrodes are all slightly oval, narrower on side facing outer contacts.
I can't believe that's wear, but, nonetheless, fancy manufacturing.

 

[Gaygle]

car had been idle for 3 months, did maybe 10miles before mot to warm it

Assuming there is no EML/emission lights on your dashboard - this is your problem. It has been driven sedately to the MOT station, where it then sat for 30 minutes on a cool day, then was driven into the MOT test area. The catalytic converter just wasn't hot enough, especially after sitting for so long.

Between the first fast idle test and the second one you can see that the CO level falls by more than half just in this short time of revving the engine a little bit.

The car simply needs a good run where you do some foot down/high revving action for 10 minutes and it'll be absolutely fine.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

CO is a sign the engine is running rich

Wrong.

CO is carbon monoxide which mean its the cat.
Hydrocarbons is to do with non full fuel burn usually running rich/missfire etc. Check sparkplugs if petrol engine.

Get cat up to temp i held mine at 5500rpm for about 3mins till the cat ignited and CO dropped to pass level. Mk3 fiesta not driven much hence

 

[Greebo]

Wrong.

CO is carbon monoxide which mean its the cat.
Hydrocarbons is to do with non full fuel burn usually running rich/missfire etc. Check sparkplugs if petrol engine.

Get cat up to temp i held mine at 5500rpm for about 3mins till the cat ignited and CO dropped to pass level. Mk3 fiesta not driven much hence

In my day it was always a sign of a rich burn. But I am used to pre cat cars.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

In my day it was always a sign of a rich burn. But I am used to pre cat cars.

Be honest, your running a decat on every car you get

 

[Greebo]

Be honest, your running a decat on every car you get

never was cats on 1969 mg midgets

 

[Scania]

I’ve had 3 cars with the M52 engine, both my old e38 728i and e39 528i failed an MOT because,as already said, the cat simply wasn’t warm enough when the car was tested.

Incidentally on e36 328i cleaning my maf sensor broke it I used a supposed maf cleaning spray but was told I should have left it alone, had to replace the damn thing!

 

[jpaul]

Did the oil&filters, and gave it some 5Krpm action, will put in new plugs when they arrive ... and then schedule re-test,
other than revving it (as proposed), without a nearby motorway, difficult to really warm cat up.

made another mental note - always check the top cap on the waste oil drain pan ... the copper washer as always dropped in, but, minimal splashing.

I used a supposed maf cleaning spray but was told I should have left it alone

as preventative maintenance I used spray IPA several months back, and drenched it, but, could still be part of my issue.

 

[MissChief]

Warm car up, rag the nuts off it, high rpm and WOT runs. Then retest.

 

[Gaygle]

Did the oil&filters, and gave it some 5Krpm action, will put in new plugs when they arrive ... and then schedule re-test,
other than revving it (as proposed), without a nearby motorway, difficult to really warm cat up.

You don't need a motorway to warm a car up? I'm approximately 30 miles away from my nearest motorway but dammit I can get my car very warm in just the 5 miles surrounding my town. Just find an A road, and stamp on the throttle and rev out every gear for a bit, it's not hard.

Don't sit there revving the car, that doesn't warm it up properly, just drive it hard for 5-10 minutes on some backroads and you'll be fine - it really is a simple as that.

 

[jpaul]

new versus old - the ovalish shape hadn't looked too untoward.

 

[Gaygle]

The spark plugs were fine. I guess it never hurts to have some new spark plugs in, but really, the old ones looked absolutely fine.

 

[jpaul]

but really, the old ones looked absolutely fine.

ok interesting, I was hoping that might represent significant degradation,
maybe with moden high voltage electronic ignition the spark gap is less important than cars that used to have distributors ?
overall yes the plugs looked the right colour, no glazing or excessive oil, but - the gap represents an unknown, and central electrode wear, becoming an oval surprising.

 

[jpaul]

phew - Passed on the re-test CO dropping 0.83 to 0.17 %, still up on 0.05 last year.

so, although the oil changed (now fresh titan superyn 5-40) had looked a bit coloured, the new plugs seem to have been what did it ?
(not sure why CO limit got changed)

 

[Gaygle]

I can almost guarantee that the plugs did the square root of FA. And the oil is meant to turn black, normally within a few miles after changing it, that is it doing it's job

This was only ever about the catalytic converter. Did you do a good warm up this time prior to the MOT?

Ah well, glad you've got it sorted.