Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

[Jono8]

MM could decide how to act regarding the safety car. People need to look at the rules properly.

Just because it wasnt done that way before, doesnt mean it couldnt be done that way legally.

No, the premise is clearly absurd and that would never fly in court as to the intentions of regulations and rules that teams follow. The race director cannot just make up his own selective and unfair rules on the spot to influence the result.

Do you know why only letting some cars unlap themselves and not others is not in the regulations? That is because it is clearly an absurdly unfair way of restarting the race, and the teams would NEVER stand for such a regulation.

 

[Cryfreeman]

So no rule book next year, just what ever idea is floating around in the head of Masi to make a good show?

 

[Jono8]

So no rule book next year, just what ever idea is floating around in the head of Masi to make a good show?

Apparently yes.

Going to make strategy decisions pretty tricky going forward.....

 

[Kenai]

So no rule book next year, just what ever idea is floating around in the head of Masi to make a good show?

Bono, my tyres are going off
Hold on Lewis, we think we're only two laps away from Masi Madness Minute, anything could happen

 

[Jono8]

Bono, my tyres are going off
Hold on Lewis, we think we're only two laps away from Masi Madness Minute, anything could happen

Lewis in P10 due to a gearbox grid penalty but in the fastest car so likely to finish in the podium:

"Ok, Lewis there is a safety car on lap 3 of 55. We think it will take about 5 laps to clear, but as he can do whatever he wants we have a suspicion Masi may randomly decide to just have the whole of the rest of the race under the safety car so don't box, don't box. Sorry, P10 it is."

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Think in interview with Johnny Herbert they mentioned 9 million people watched the race, that might have been combined number.
I've not missed anything, it was just bit of fun to show that drivers do stupid things during their career. As for whether Max will change or not, we'll have to wait and see. It doesn't look very likely but now that he's got the title he may calm down.

So you were just trying to wind people up?

 

[UTmaniac]

From BBC article...

In 2020, there was a safety-car period during the Eifel Grand Prix at the Nurburgring. Both Hamilton and Verstappen complained it had been unnecessarily long.

Masi was asked about this after the race. He said: "There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past."

So all teams were briefed that there was a rule change since then to allow what he did on Sunday?

 

[Jono8]

From BBC article...



So all teams were briefed that there was a rule change since then to allow what he did on Sunday?

yeh all the teams must have missed it I think.

Goes a little something like this:

Amendment to rules governing safety cars -
"If under a safety car on the last lap of the title deciding race, Lewis Hamilton is in P1 and has been too good with Max (in P2) not standing a chance (however many free pit stops he gets due to other people's accidents) the safety car rules and precedents will be thrown out of the window to allow only the cars between Lewis and Max to unlap themselves. Oh and also, the safety car will come in that lap immediately before those unlapped cars have made it back round contrary to the rules. Oh and also, that will obviously mean that any cars between Max and P3 stay where they are to give Max the best possible opportunity to overtake Lewis and not have to even think about defending from behind on the restart. Unfortunately that means P3 and backwards don't get to race for any higher places. Anyone behind Max and still stuck in traffic will unfortunately have to suck it up. Good luck catching the people you were racing with in front of you on the last lap that i will have just let through to unlap themselves! lols!"

 

[Slam62]

MM could decide how to act regarding the safety car. People need to look at the rules properly.

Just because it wasnt done that way before, doesnt mean it couldnt be done that way legally.

Consistent application of rules has to happen in sport otherwise the whole thing can be fixed. What would happen if some time down the line a far Eastern betting syndicate was found to have made a fortune. The rules must always be applied in the same way.

Tbh I am really still in a state of shock about this, we've had some dodgy stuff go on in f1 over the years but nothing gets near the blatant brushing aside of long established protocols as we have had in the last two races.

I don't think Masi will go because the powers that be won't see anything fundamentally wrong. As usual the serious fans are the last to realise that the game has changed, I always want to believe what I think it should be, but there is no more pure f1, which is what made it matter. In f1 if you weren't fast enough you lost as a rule and there was jeopardyin getting it wrong, but that's not the game now, ironically one of the things that has probably contributed to the change is improved safety. If Grosean had died in that crash do you think this safety car shenanigans would have happened. If Hamilton had suffered serious injury when the RB landed on top of him or Verstappen had suffered bad injuries at Silverstone. They now view it as some sort of arcade game and anything goes. It really shouldn't be called a world championship now, more a destruction derby.

 

[bayo000]

So you were just trying to wind people up?

Of course it was. Don't think there's a point continuing this conversation.

 

[Slam62]

And all that stuff about MM controls the safety car obviously means he is the only one who controls it and no one else. His responsibility is for a safe race and to ensure the rules are applied. It doesn't matter if he doesn't like the rules. His remit is not to make a show, or maybe it is now. Which seems a bit dangerous.

While I'm on, what about those 6 sprint races next year, blimey what a dull form or competition, reverse grids is the only way those will work.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Of course it was. Don't think there's a point continuing this conversation.

Solid discussion skills

 

[Jono8]

Consistent application of rules has to happen in sport otherwise the whole thing can be fixed. What would happen if some time down the line a far Eastern betting syndicate was found to have made a fortune. The rules must always be applied in the same way.

Tbh I am really still in a state of shock about this, we've had some dodgy stuff go on in f1 over the years but nothing gets near the blatant brushing aside of long established protocols as we have had in the last two races.

I don't think Masi will go because the powers that be won't see anything fundamentally wrong. As usual the serious fans are the last to realise that the game has changed, I always want to believe what I think it should be, but there is no more pure f1, which is what made it matter. In f1 if you weren't fast enough you lost as a rule and there was jeopardyin getting it wrong, but that's not the game now, ironically one of the things that has probably contributed to the change is improved safety. If Grosean had died in that crash do you think this safety car shenanigans would have happened. If Hamilton had suffered serious injury when the RB landed on top of him or Verstappen had suffered bad injuries at Silverstone. They now view it as some sort of arcade game and anything goes. It really shouldn't be called a world championship now, more a destruction derby.

They should call it 'Masi's Mad Motor Racing', considering he is apparently allowed to make up the rules as he sees fit, regardless of whether they are massively prejudicial to half the field.

 

[Brazo]

It's nothing to do with the drivers.

It was done to manipulate, create drama. Ultimately about viewing figures. Regardless if it was done with good intentions, the optics look terrible.

If it does get more views. Well the director do more of this in the future as he'll have been vindicated.

Exactly. It was done for Netflix drama and not a race. Which is all well and good if your filing a Netflix series but has no bearing on a real race. How can the teams (any of them) actually go forward now next year and race knowing that the rules can be made up and changed at last minute to suit? Hamilton may well lose next year for not having the right colour underpants on. No more farcical than this year’s decision.

 

[SDK^]

It's cute that people still think this is somehow some sort of debate with "for & against"

It isnt. There is no rule that says a select few drivers get to unlap themselves and not the rest, because that is quite clearly absurd and intensely unfair on those left lapped or left behind those that couldn't unlap themselves.

Masi's made up rule was for the sole benefit of Max Verstappen. It put him right behind Lewis AND without 3rd or 4th place behind for him to think about on the restart. It also completely ruins Mercs strategy call as it made the safety car period much quicker than expected had the rules been applied.

This has been covered at least 10 times already in this thread.
There can't be a discrete rule for every single scenario, but.....

Rule 15.3
The RD has overriding authority of the following matters....
e: The use of the safety car.

So what you described in my quote falls under this rule. Rightly or wrongly the decision was made within the rules.

15.3 overides 48.13

48.13 overides 48.12

The rules are a mess and need reviewing & updating.

 

[Jono8]

This has been covered at least 10 times already in this thread.
There can't be a discrete rule for every single scenario, but.....

Rule 15.3
The RD has overriding authority of the following matters....
e: The use of the safety car.

So what you described in my quote falls under this rule.

Nope. As has been said, that is clearly an absurd take. He has authority over the safety car, yes. However he doesn't have authority to manipulate the race under the safety car. The new rule he made up was objectively unfair (not just to Lewis, but others too, but it was done for the sole benefit of Max) and manipulated the race into one ending.

 

[el_dazza]

Anyone fancy a bet on how many pages we get to before Jono8 concedes no matter how much he whinges about the result, it isn't going to change?

 

[SDK^]

Nope. As has been said, that is clearly an absurd take. He has authority over the safety car, yes. However he doesn't have authority to manipulate the race under the safety car. The new rule he made up was objectively unfair (not just to Lewis, but others too, but it was done for the sole benefit of Max) and manipulated the race into one ending.

Yes it was unfair.
The whole SC process where cars get bunched up, losing any lead they built up is unfair.

There must be better ways, BUT you can't go back and change the result now!

 

[AndyCr15]

Exactly. It was done for Netflix drama and not a race.

I see this a lot. Netflix have very little to do with the top teams though, I'm not sure Max or Lewis have ever been on in any major way? They tend to follow the middle and lower teams. I think it was done just to make a dramatic finish to try and publicise the sport generally. A little WWE like, as has been mentioned.

 

[AndyCr15]

Yes it was unfair.
The whole SC process where cars get bunched up, losing any lead they built up is unfair.

There must be better ways, BUT you can't go back and change the result now!

Well, it's supposed to be fair in that it's the same rules for everyone one. For some reason these rules got adapted for Sunday, which left Lewis at a massive disadvantage. (Because see my last post)