Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

[Deleted member 651465]

Standard top quality video from ChainBear, don't think i've missed it already being posted.

That’s a cracking video. Just goes to highlight how messed up the race directors action and stewarding decision was.

 

[chrcoluk]

Imagine in football if a referee sent off a goalie then decided on the whim to forbid a new one coming on as a substitute and then to do a penalty shootout.

We also have had UEFA mess up due process on the CL draw, what did they do? they voided it. Thats more credible in my opinion than pretending nothing is wrong.

 

[chrcoluk]

This has been covered at least 10 times already in this thread.
There can't be a discrete rule for every single scenario, but.....

Rule 15.3
The RD has overriding authority of the following matters....
e: The use of the safety car.

So what you described in my quote falls under this rule. Rightly or wrongly the decision was made within the rules.

15.3 overides 48.13

48.13 overides 48.12

The rules are a mess and need reviewing & updating.

You partially quoted.

15.3 states the RD has overriding authority over the clerk. How that got interpreted to have authority over the rest of the rules I dont know.

 

[woppy101]

Imagine in football if a referee sent off a goalie then decided on the whim to forbid a new one coming on as a substitute and then to do a penalty shootout.

We also have had UEFA mess up due process on the CL draw, what did they do? they voided it. Thats more credible in my opinion than pretending nothing is wrong.

Newcastle play Liverpool on Thursday, with Mike Dean refereeing, I’m hoping he does a Michael Massi, when Liverpool are 4-0 up he gives us a penalty and calls next goal winner. There’s a hope right, isn’t that how sports played now?

 

[Jono8]

You partially quoted.

15.3 states the RD has overriding authority over the clerk. How that got interpreted to have authority over the rest of the rules I dont know.

yep. The "authority" thing is a red herring. Authority means that he is the authority (of all the people), it doesn't mean he is the authority over the rules and regulations as well. It would be absurd to have a whole host of rules that the teams follow, for it to be allowed that one person can just go "na, actually we are going to do this instead next lap. Don't like red cars. Any red cars get a 10 second stop and go penalty and have to change onto a worn set of hard tyres ".

 

[Locky]

LOL

Nothing to laugh out loud at.. It was for all to see. Only people like you see is differently..

 

[KiNgPiN83]

You have no proof it was done to benefit Max over the given reason of wanting the race to be decided under Green flag conditions. I honestly believe if it was the other way around and Lewis had pitted and Max stayed out then Masi would have made the same decision regarding getting the race underway asap.

I'm not saying he was right to break the rules, I'm just not going with the narrative it was done just so Max could win.

I feel like you're right here. There seemed to be that boner to get racing again no matter what without taking into account anything else... Although it would've been a bold strat for Merc to call Lewis in as their logic dictated that there was no time for the race to complete in real-time and it would finish under the safety car so track position would be key over newer tyres. At the same time you also have RB who have nothing to lose by pitting Max, pitting Max.

 

[Jono8]

I feel like you're right here. There seemed to be that boner to get racing again no matter what without taking into account anything else... Although it would've been a bold strat for Merc to call Lewis in as their logic dictated that there was no time for the race to complete in real-time and it would finish under the safety car so track position would be key over newer tyres. At the same time you also have RB who have nothing to lose by pitting Max, pitting Max.

I'm certain that had the crash been a few laps earlier, Merc would have put Hamilton on softs. It meant either he was ahead of Max on softs with Max on softs too, or behind Max but with Max on old hards, BUT cruicially with still a few laps to race.

With the high probability of there actually being racing laps left, the only thing to have done would be to pit Hamilton. With there being virtually zero chance of any racing laps left clear of backmarkers (under normal rules), Merc made the correct decision.

 

[Freakbro]

Standard top quality video from ChainBear, don't think i've missed it already being posted.

Can't argue with any of that, good video.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

The rule 15.3 that states he’s got control of the safety car (through the clerk of the course) is surely meant to outline that he can deploy / withdraw the SC as per 48.12.

That’s normally how regs work… If you define a responsibility for using x, you then detail the use of x under its own defined criteria.

Chain Bear covered this too but it’s certainly not what the stewards concluded and one that I think they ballsed up in the decision.

Clearly, there may be situations which prohibits the SC from completing a full lap of the course after the message to withdraw it is shown (the car breaking down etc) but nothing that happened on Sunday resembles an extenuating circumstance beyond “the show”. Precedent exists and he chose to ignore it…. Because Masi.

 

[Scam]

Thing is, if the crash happened a few laps earlier, Mercedes may well have pitted Hamilton as they would have known that there might be a few laps at the end.

Exactly. With more than a few laps remaining it would have been a possibility. With one single lap remaining the deck suddenly got shuffled entirely into Max's hands.

Max's performance this season makes him a worthy champion

even though he is a deserving champion

Just to point out, we're arguing over how important it is for Masi to follow the rules. Likewise, it's imperative that all drivers follow the rules. Max broke the rules and cheated all year, and that's not even accounting for his team's whining and backroom dealings to affect Masi. It's for the sheer fact that Masi was incompetent on laying down the law - that Max got away with any of his nonsense. Chucking it up the inside and forcing cars off track, or overtaking off track. It's not allowed. With Whiting or any decent steward at the helm he would have been penalised immediately and he would have been on what half the points? Personally I'll never admit he is a worthy champion until he sorts that **** out.

 

[Kenai]

The rule 15.3 that states he’s got control of the safety car (through the clerk of the course) is surely meant to outline that he can deploy / withdraw the SC as per 48.12.

That’s normally how regs work… If you define a responsibility for using x, you then detail the use of x under its own defined criteria.

Chain Bear covered this too but it’s certainly not what the stewards concluded and one that I think they ballsed up in the decision.

Clearly, there may be situations which prohibits the SC from completing a full lap of the course after the message to withdraw it is shown (the car breaking down etc) but nothing that happened on Sunday resembles an extenuating circumstance beyond “the show”. Precedent exists and he chose to ignore it…. Because Masi.

It's worth bearing in mind it was Red Bull who put forward that interpretation, the stewards I think have then seen an opportunity to hide behind that to avoid making a further contentious decision.

 

[cuke2u]

Exactly. With more than a few laps remaining it would have been a possibility. With one single lap remaining the deck suddenly got shuffled entirely into Max's hands.


Just to point out, we're arguing over how important it is for Masi to follow the rules. Likewise, it's imperative that all drivers follow the rules. Max broke the rules and cheated all year, and that's not even accounting for his team's whining and backroom dealings to affect Masi. It's for the sheer fact that Masi was incompetent on laying down the law - that Max got away with any of his nonsense. Chucking it up the inside and forcing cars off track, or overtaking off track. It's not allowed. With Whiting or any decent steward at the helm he would have been penalised immediately and he would have been on what half the points? Personally I'll never admit he is a worthy champion until he sorts that **** out.

So you're not anti max or red bull then why stop at that

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Like being gifted the race win at Spa, or being gifted a second race in Austria where RBR had a ridiculous advantage? Or Monaco where he qualified 2nd but was gifted pole (effectively a guaranteed race win bar some mechanical issue)? Or all of the times he drove overly-aggressively and the stewards turned a blind eye? All of that bad luck?

Let’s also not forget the changes to aero rules to massively favour the rake of the Red Bull.

Also the dubious DQ of Lewis for some wing discrepancy following RBR raising it with stewards and Max “handling” Lewis’ rear wing after quali. So Horner can see a 0.2mm gap from the pit wall can he? That scenario smelt very off to me.

If I’m honest - I believe Chase Carey is at the bottom of all of it.

 

[Ninco!]

Well, all I can say is it reminded me of 1994. Shocking.

Verstappen drove some fine races as well as Hamilton. Had Hamilton shut the door each time Verstappen dive bombed this year; Bottas would most likely be WDC.

I would love to see the likes of Leclerc, Alonso, Riccardo, Norris in the same position as Hamilton this year and see how they would have coped with Verstappen intimidation of dive bombing and running off the road.

I think a lot more penalties would have been dished out to Verstappen. Sadly with the change of order needed to make F1 a show. Hamilton is the obvious fall guy.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Let’s also not forget the changes to aero rules to massively favour the rake of the Red Bull.

Also the dubious DQ of Lewis for some wing discrepancy following RBR raising it with stewards and Max “handling” Lewis’ rear wing after quali. So Horner can see a 0.2mm gap from the pit wall can he? That scenario smelt very off to me.

If I’m honest - I believe Chase Carey is at the bottom of all of it.

Yep, plus the three (or was it two?) races that Red Bull were given to replace their illegal flexy wing, but Hamilton gets DQ’d for his 2mm gap.

I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but it really does feel like this season, the FIA did everything in their power to knock Mercedes and Hamilton off the top spot.

 

[cuke2u]

I think you'll find that Aston Martin, Alpine and Alfa Romeo all had flexi rear wings. It was just that Mercedes played politics and highlight their nearest competitor...

 

[Brazo]

Why do people think there was some sort of conspiracy within race control to let max win, ffs people. At the most masi ****** which put max in a position to pass lewis. There is absolutley no way they deliberately "fixed" the result so max won, wake up for gods sake.

Whether it was conspiracy or just incompetence it doesn’t look good!

 

[Flibster]

The day before the Abu Dhabi race, the FIA released the FIA Officials Competency Framework, which lists the technical and behavioural competencies required by Officials from Sporting Delegates to Covid Officer to Race Director.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/211207-fia_classmetiersa4-int-web-2.pdf

Huh... Has Masi read it?

 

[Jono8]

The day before the Abu Dhabi race, the FIA released the FIA Officials Competency Framework, which lists the technical and behavioural competencies required by Officials from Sporting Delegates to Covid Officer to Race Director.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/211207-fia_classmetiersa4-int-web-2.pdf

Huh... Has Masi read it?

"Remains impartial in all matters relating to the competition and deals with each situation on its merits. Respects confidentiality in all matters."

&

"Makes focussed decisions when confronted with intensified periods of demand upon his/her time and/or abilities."




LOL. He failed miserably.


Has a thorough understanding of all the relevant regulations required to run the competition inclusive of the sporting, technical and judicial rules. Understands also any applicable civil and/ or legal requirements relevant to a competition.

^ Apparently that one does not matter as he can just make **** up as he goes along according to the FIA