Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

[adam cool dude]

Well yes, but that's because Max and others took the gamble when the SC was called and jumped in the pits to get new tyres, so it wasn't just RB that thought there was a chance of the race restarting anyway.

Yes that is true and Mercedes also had that opportunity but when they were told that there would be no overtaking under the safety car they made the correct decision to stay out. Max would have never made it.

If god told you it was sunny outside you would have summer tyres on when you went for a drive. Only to go down the road for 2 minutes only to find out you are driving through a blizzard. That is what basically happened.

If the rules were followed it would have been either all cars unlap themselves and finish behind the safety car or not allow any cars to unlap themselves and Max would have finished second.

 

[Jono8]

I could be wrong and happy to be corrected but I thought that was because they didn't have time for them to be unlapped and still get a race lap in? They were coming to the end of the lap (if iirc) as it was hence the last minute panic/rush to come up with a solution to make it work.

There wasn't time for them to be unlapped and get a race lap in. You are correct. Which means that the options were to let them have one lap without them unlapping themselves, or finish under the safety car. Only letting some unlap themselves is obviously massively prejudicial towards some of the field (not just Lewis either).

Well yes, but that's because Max and others took the gamble when the SC was called and jumped in the pits to get new tyres, so it wasn't just RB that thought there was a chance of the race restarting anyway.

That is because its all he had. He wasn't going to win by any other means, so you obviously have to gamble.

 

[Mesai]

Yes that is true and Mercedes also had that opportunity but when they were told that there would be no overtaking under the safety car they made the correct decision to stay out. Max would have never made it.

If god told you it was sunny outside you would have summer tyres on when you went for a drive. Only to go down the road for 2 minutes only to find out you are driving through a blizzard.

You can never overtake under safety car...Max had to lap those backmarkers whether he pitted or not so it was win-win. If Lewis pitted, Max would have stayed out (on fresher hard tires) and been in first. The only opportunity to pit under SC is as it happens.

 

[adam cool dude]

You can never overtake under safety car...Max had to lap those backmarkers whether he pitted or not so it was win-win. If Lewis pitted, Max would have stayed out (on fresher hard tires) and been in first. The only opportunity to pit under SC is as it happens.

Sorry i meant unlapping.

 

[Freakbro]

Yes that is true and Mercedes also had that opportunity but when they were told that there would be no overtaking unlapping under the safety car they made the correct decision to stay out. Max would have never made it.

There was no decision to make at that point, that was 6 minutes after the SC had been deployed and the cars were already bunched up. The only time to make the pit call was immediately after the SC was called and the first time your driver is approaching the pits - that's the point Merc decided to stay out and RB to go in before anyone knew about lapped cars being able to unlap or not.

And yes @Jono8 I agree they did it because they had nothing to lose at that point.

 

[Mesai]

Sorry i meant unlapping.

Yea, I mean that's the big issue right; normally SC would be a much more tedious process so I bet Merc figured the race would either a) finish under SC or b) Max would have to lap 5 cars and overtake Lewis, which was highly unlikely.

 

[Scam]

What I also find so cringe, is that Massi finally decided to grow a pair and try to tell Toto "it's a motor race" in response to Toto complaining. It's taken him all season to finally try to shut one of them down and a) he choses Toto and b) The final race of the season where he's made the worst decisions in history of F1. I think Massi has always been more scared to deal with Redbull than Merc. I don't really know why that is other than some form of corruption or expectation. Both are generally polite on the comms. I don't condone any live comms bidding during the live race but Massi really has crumbled under the pressure there. You could hear him stutter and his voice crack on a couple of occasions this season. He's failed in his role.

Yeah 100%.

 

[jaybee]

If Lewis had pitted, Max would have stayed out and overtook Lewis whilst he pitted taking P1, then we would have had Horner hogging the radio with "Michael this has to end under the safety car now, you cannot restart this." I really do believe it would have ended under safety car as well. I believe there has been clearly differing responses from Michael based on lobbying from Redbull over Merc. If Toto managed to get comms in saying the cars should be unlapped, I believe he would have been treated differently for sure. I'm not a conspiracy nut at all I just believe this is what would have happened based on the patterns and behaviour we have seen this season. In some ways this would have been better because then at least nothing was done "wrong" per say. It would be absolutely horrible to take all the same for Ham fans but at least it would be legal and people could blame Merc for coming in the pits.

 

[Sui]

Regardless of who has won the championship, the worst thing for the sport will be FIA doubling down on backing Masi for next year or not changing any rules.

I don’t care who wins, but what happened on Sunday was ******** of the highest order. We’ve always had calls based on a referees interpretation of rules, however they’ve never made them up on the spot. It just makes the whole thing pointless.

 

[Bar]

Why do people think there was some sort of conspiracy within race control to let max win, ffs people. At the most masi ****** which put max in a position to pass lewis. There is absolutley no way they deliberately "fixed" the result so max won, wake up for gods sake.

The issue is that Massi had multiple options all within the "norms" of the regulations and previous precedents. What he did was completely unprecedented and was virtually guaranteed to allow max to win. Why did he not choose any of the other options he had available? When people are stressed its normal to default to what has been done in the past as its a proven approach - its highly unusual to create a brand new precedent which was only going to have one outcome.

 

[Jono8]

Why do people think there was some sort of conspiracy within race control to let max win, ffs people. At the most masi ****** which put max in a position to pass lewis. There is absolutley no way they deliberately "fixed" the result so max won, wake up for gods sake.

Well, the trouble is, to believe that Masi had no idea that his actions would hand Max the title is very difficult as it would mean he has no idea how anything works in F1.

 

[Mesai]

Why do people think there was some sort of conspiracy within race control to let max win, ffs people. At the most masi ****** which put max in a position to pass lewis. There is absolutley no way they deliberately "fixed" the result so max won, wake up for gods sake.

Agreed. Nothing leading up to the final race has hinted towards RB favoritism - I think the FIA have been consistently inconsistent. Honestly felt like a bunch of trainees trying to figure out the job on the fly.

 

[Steampunk]

Why do people think there was some sort of conspiracy within race control to let max win, ffs people. At the most masi ****** which put max in a position to pass lewis. There is absolutley no way they deliberately "fixed" the result so max won, wake up for gods sake.

But that's exactly what they ended up doing. You can debate whether it was intentional, but when Horner badgered Masi, and Masi gave in to what Horner wanted, that's exactly what happened. Masi broke the rules, and effectively fixed the race by putting Max where he would have an insurmountable advantage over Hamilton, and would win the race.

You can't pull the trigger and then act surprised when a bullet comes flying out of the gun. One follows inevitably from the other, and Masi would know that.

 

[Mesai]

Well, the trouble is, to believe that Masi had no idea that his actions would hand Max the title is very difficult as it would mean he has no idea how anything works in F1.

Honestly, with the amateur hour they've shown, he probably realised too late what'd he'd done in attempting to not have the race finish under SC. Dude sounded flustered when he spoke to Toto.

 

[Kanpai]

Well from next season teams wont be able to talk to the RD during race according to Brawn.

 

[Jono8]

Honestly, with the amateur hour they've shown, he probably realised too late what'd he'd done in attempting to not have the race finish under SC. Dude sounded flustered when he spoke to Toto.

Maybe he hadn't realised that lewis had not pitted, so thought making up the rules wouldn't be so bad as it would be a fair fight and everyone would forget

Imagine him realising when the safety car comes in..."oh **** i'm going to get slaughtered"

 

[Bar]

But that's exactly what they ended up doing. You can debate whether it was intentional, but when Horner badgered Masi, and Masi gave in to what Horner wanted, that's exactly what happened. Masi broke the rules, and effectively fixed the race by putting Max where he would have an insurmountable advantage over Hamilton, and would win the race.

You can't pull the trigger and then act surprised when a bullet comes flying out of the gun. One follows inevitably from the other, and Masi would know that.

unless you're Alec Baldwin.....

 

[Mesai]

Maybe he hadn't realised that lewis had not pitted, so thought making up the rules wouldn't be so bad as it would be a fair fight and everyone would forget

Imagine him realising when the safety car comes in..."oh **** i'm going to get slaughtered"

Haha, this is exactly how I've pictured it.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Regardless of who has won the championship, the worst thing for the sport will be FIA doubling down on backing Masi for next year or not changing any rules.

I don’t care who wins, but what happened on Sunday was ******** of the highest order. We’ve always had calls based on a referees interpretation of rules, however they’ve never made them up on the spot. It just makes the whole thing pointless.

However the FIA stated in their ruling the RD has the right to decide on the day how its run, in other words he has permission to make up the rules as he sees fit and therefore any appeals are null and void. Its also been stated that any court will be made of judges of their own choosing, so the result will be whatever they want it to be and its not hard what to guess that will be.

In simple terms its a circus and the RD gives the thumbs up or thumbs down depending on how it plays to the crowd. If you thought actual fairness or a level playing field comes into this, think again.

 

[adam cool dude]

If Lewis had pitted, Max would have stayed out and overtook Lewis whilst he pitted taking P1, then we would have had Horner hogging the radio with "Michael this has to end under the safety car now, you cannot restart this." I really do believe it would have ended under safety car as well. I believe there has been clearly differing responses from Michael based on lobbying from Redbull over Merc. If Toto managed to get comms in saying the cars should be unlapped, I believe he would have been treated differently for sure. I'm not a conspiracy nut at all I just believe this is what would have happened based on the patterns and behaviour we have seen this season. In some ways this would have been better because then at least nothing was done "wrong" per say. It would be absolutely horrible to take all the same for Ham fans but at least it would be legal and people could blame Merc for coming in the pits.

Pretty much this. You either believe that Masi really wanted to finish the race with 1 lap to go with a battle between the top two or he wanted Max to win. I think maybe the last bit is a bit CT but I do believe he was pushed to get the race restarted in any way possible. After what happened at Belgium. It wouldn't surprise me there are external forces at work.

Unfortunately the way the accident happened you couldn't have a 1 lap battle because he had to bend the rules. That in itself is giving Max an unfair advantage whether that was his intent or not.

If this had all happened 5 laps earlier we would be all congratulating Max and even though harsh it would have been legal. The only legal solution in the reality of what happened was to finish the race behind the safety car or restart the race without cars unlapping themselves.