Reoffending rates - perhaps the spinless left were right after all...
- Thread starter shoes
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Crime, law and prison threads always seem to bring in the morons.
I don't think i will even bother with a thought out argument here.
The fact is, overall crime is coming down, re-offence is natural in a recession plagued time and we simply DON'T have the money to build many more prisons.
I don't think i will even bother with a thought out argument here.
The fact is, overall crime is coming down, re-offence is natural in a recession plagued time and we simply DON'T have the money to build many more prisons.
Man of Honour
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I can appreciate that if you've got family ties then that colours your views but that doesn't then mean what you're proposing is necessarily a good way to actually deal with a justice system. It's possible that your ideas would be beneficial for your cousin but on a wider scale harsher punishments have little to no deterrent effect, they simply appeal to people who think there's an entirely logical process in place for committing crime. Many criminals, perhaps even most, do not expect to get caught and therefore the harshness of the punishment has no real bearing on the decision to commit crime.
Or to put it another way if you look to countries that have the harshest prison regimes then you'll generally also find that they have no lower a rate of recidivism than places that have less harsh prison regimes - in fact the obverse is usually true but it must be backed up with a well thought out and implemented rehabilitation programme. One size does not fit all for rehabilitation and some people may never be suitable for rehabilitation but that doesn't mean that it could not be beneficial for the majority. Good rehabilitation is not cheap or easy but if it prevents or reduces recidivism then it should offer a good return over the persons lifetime compared to just jailing them and all the associated costs with dealing with repeat crimes.
It may work for you but as has been pointed out it's not really working all that well in America. It's essentially politically motivated rather than any thought being given to whether it is efficacious in preventing or reducing crime. It's also worth pointing out that there's the potential for people to be motivated to commit more serious crimes to avoid capture if they are facing life in prison for their third offence (whatever it may be) - it's far from a guaranteed response but at this point what do you have to lose, you'd be jailed anyway so why not go all out? Of course that does assume a certain amount of a logical process there.
How very dare you, you've actually looked at the story rather than the headline!
Soldato
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You've just pulled that out of the air haven't you? You have absolutely no proof for it, other than it's what you want to be true. In fact if you start to look at countries that do try to rehabilitate, then you'll see that re-offending rates are lower.
But don't let facts get in the way of your hard on for punishment.
Actually I pulled it from my brain but it is very well documented.
80% of those released from jail return within one year.
According to Justice Department statistician Allen Beck, drug offenders currently account for nearly 60% of all inmates, as opposed to 25% in 1980
Prison costs $25,000 per year per inmate.
There are some that can and do change their ways, but not the vast majority. Prison life is too easy.. TV, exercise room, etc. Big part of reason for all this entertainment and recreation for prisoners is it makes the prisons safer for inmate and guards alike. But it doesn't make for punishment, restitution, or re... reee.... re.habilitation. Hard word to even say.
I believe prisons should be work camps with regular hours each day working and regular hours each day in rehab, education, group counseling etc. And if they go back to prison for 3rd time throw away the key.
Problem with making inmates work is it's against their human rights.. and if what they produce is sold to public it's unfair competition for private companies and employees.
Problem with $25000/year/inmate is overcrowded prisons and no money for rehab.
Think how much could be done if just 10% of the money now spent on incarceration was used to change the lives of low income mothers their kids, etc. Better to educate them instead of slapping bandages on later... if the fire never starts we don't have to put it out.
80% of those released from jail return within one year.
According to Justice Department statistician Allen Beck, drug offenders currently account for nearly 60% of all inmates, as opposed to 25% in 1980
Prison costs $25,000 per year per inmate.
There are some that can and do change their ways, but not the vast majority. Prison life is too easy.. TV, exercise room, etc. Big part of reason for all this entertainment and recreation for prisoners is it makes the prisons safer for inmate and guards alike. But it doesn't make for punishment, restitution, or re... reee.... re.habilitation. Hard word to even say.
I believe prisons should be work camps with regular hours each day working and regular hours each day in rehab, education, group counseling etc. And if they go back to prison for 3rd time throw away the key.
Problem with making inmates work is it's against their human rights.. and if what they produce is sold to public it's unfair competition for private companies and employees.
Problem with $25000/year/inmate is overcrowded prisons and no money for rehab.
Think how much could be done if just 10% of the money now spent on incarceration was used to change the lives of low income mothers their kids, etc. Better to educate them instead of slapping bandages on later... if the fire never starts we don't have to put it out.
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OP fails because he thinks UK is rehabilitation based rather than punishment based, if anything these statistics show our non rehabilitation based punishment system does not work and that the left are correct.
Soldato
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He's 25 years old and has no experience in the matter other than trying to find things to confirm his bias. Almost not worth debating with
Just seen who he is, he was being an idiot in a thread in Motors and had actual prison officers explain to him that their UK prisons were not rehabilitation based, and he never came back. So not only is he a 25 years old with no experience or education in the matter other than trying to find things to confirm his bias, he is also being a complete wimp.
Funny really because he wouldn't last a second in our prisons and would be crying out for a rehabilitation based justice system should he ever end up unfortunate enough to end up in one.
Your brain. The source of all sorts of useful things, no doubt.
Are you trying to defeat your own point here? What we're doing just now - in other words not trying to rehabilitate - isn't working.
You've already made that point.
Clearly it's a hard word to say if you've the mind of a child and don't know what it means. Anyway, prison life is too easy? Can you cite any references to that, other than the Daily Mail or BNP pamphlets? When you say it's too easy, do you mean too easy for your masturbatory fantasies?Prison life is too easy.. TV, exercise room, etc. Big part of reason for all this entertainment and recreation for prisoners is it makes the prisons safer for inmate and guards alike. But it doesn't make for punishment, restitution, or re... reee.... re.habilitation. Hard word to even say.
Oh hang on, you've got some sense mixed in there. Rehab, education, counselling, regular hours. Well, perhaps if we do all that then there might be justification not to release someone. Or maybe not. How about we focus on the rehabilitation for now, and we leave your S&M fantasies for afterwards, once we see if it works?
Is it?
This is a British forum, and we're talking about British prisons. What kind of dollars are you talking about?
Well, you do finish well. We spend far too much on crime, because we don't spend enough on it. We spend so much dealing with the fall out because we don't spend enough preventing and dealing with problems.
However the solution isn't whatever kind of sick fantasies that you and Shoes seem to want to impose on other humans...
Fantastic idea. How could it possibly go wrong?
Source?
My own opinion.
Your brain. The source of all sorts of useful things, no doubt.
Are you trying to defeat your own point here?
However the solution isn't whatever kind of sick fantasies that you and Shoes seem to want to impose on other humans...
I was trying to discuss a subject with you. Obviously you would rather attack me personally instead of offer anything constructive.
End of.
Edit: Would you please volunteer for some anger management and some classes of how to interact constructively with others instead of behaving like a keyboard wib?
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Your opinion is hateful and ill-informed.
Soldato
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And you're soft and out of touch. Precisely the reason why everything's gone to **** in the first place.
Yes, it's a harsh option but an option that should be considered fully.
We need to stop with the nicey-nicey. It DOESN'T work evidently. So if nice doesn't work, what options are you left with?
Do nothing and let them do as they please regardless of the law
-OR-
Take a VERY hard line, make the punishment so harsh than only the stupid step out of line and when the stupid do step out of line for the 3rd time, it's clear they can't/won't learn so removing them from the gene pool leads to the betterment of society as they can no longer breed more stupid.